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Your biggest vulnerability is your shitty compensation

green.spacedino.net

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Re: Your biggest vulnerability is your shitty compensation

#11

Post by Havoc »

xorcist wrote: post #8

This comes off as slightly on the entitled side. Yearly salaries at $100k+ is very high by Western European standards. I can only imagine what our Eastern European colleagues would feel about it. If you can live a comfortable life and send our children to school well fed perhaps broaden the horizons a bit before ranting off about how much better the world would be if you could be paid a bit more.

Context suggests he’s in the US so not sure that sort of cross jurisdiction comparison is useful.

You could just as easily say Europeans are entitled because their salaries are high compared to an Ethiopian. It’s not a useful comparison

Re: Your biggest vulnerability is your shitty compensation

#12

Post by cowanon77 »

tidewinner wrote: post #3

Ultimately, businesses offer poor compensation because they can get away with it and society has designed the economic model to support this. The economic model does not reward work, but rather ownership of assets, and this principle exists throughout every nation. It's a society modelled around protectionism of wealth, where the wealthy can hand wealth down to their children. In the United Kingdom, a third of people…

The core theories of economics seem correct, and in fact predict the current situation if used correctly. The problem is that the game has been systemicaly rigged. Employers have maximimized their legal leverage, while crushing all employee and subcontractor leverage. The central banks favors (and often rigs) the metrics that favor the rich (GDP, U3, CPI, etc), and ignore alteratives that favor labour. The government designs tax policy to favor integenerational wealth, and capital accumulation over income.

The new deal in America roughly got things correct, and was followed by the greatest expansion of the middle class in history. What we're suffering from today is the systematic destruction of that social contract.

Re: Your biggest vulnerability is your shitty compensation

#13

Post by Havoc »

The pressures he describes seem correct and mirror what I’ve seen.

Think he’s wrong about this being close to blowing up. Think that’s coloured by his own personal situation. I suspect unfortunately the powers that be correctly read the situation as significantly more room to squeeze.

It might read as bad to usa ears but keep in mind there are people breaking down ships with zero safety, zero job security, low pay, bad equipment and certain heath impact etc. People will bear crazy stuff and still show up to work

Re: Your biggest vulnerability is your shitty compensation

#14

Post by yobbo »

In ancient times, slaves didn't revolt because they were oppressed by weapons and violence. Instead of paying workers, resources were used to pay and feed the military. Slaves were considered "war bounty" and tradeable goods.

When the incentives of workers favour burning buildings rather than working for wages, the next step is either to use force/control or to rebalance wages.

Re: Your biggest vulnerability is your shitty compensation

#15

Post by xorcist »

Havoc wrote: post #11
xorcist wrote: post #8

This comes off as slightly on the entitled side. Yearly salaries at $100k+ is very high by Western European standards. I can only imagine what our Eastern European colleagues would feel about it. If you can live a comfortable life and send our children to school well fed perhaps broaden the horizons a bit before ranting off about how much better the world would be if you could be paid a bit more.

Context suggests he’s in the US so not sure that sort of cross jurisdiction comparison is useful. You could just as easily say Europeans are entitled because their salaries are high compared to an Ethiopian. It’s not a useful comparison

The point was that a $100k+ compensation for a software office work is among the highest in the world. If a comparison with another high compensation area falls flat, then maybe that says something.

Perhaps another US state would have been a better comparison. It might be hard for a software developer in Montana to identify with a Silicon Valley rant about salaries being too low.

It would not cross my mind personally to complain about low compensation for my skilled work, precisely because I know my collegaues from areas with lower compensation are just as skilled and earn less. In what way would the world be better off if I was better paid? If it helped my company increase their security posture then that would say more about the ineffective ways we organize work around here than anything else.

Re: Your biggest vulnerability is your shitty compensation

#16

Post by tetris11 »

The 1830's reform of the UK, which begrudging wrestled power from the Lords and distributed voting power more evenly over the UK (rammed cities like Manchester had almost no voting rights), only happened when some of the Lords houses were close to being burned down.

Thankfully the UK didn't follow France into the anarchy that was the French Revolution, and Earl Grey could make them see reason. But damn did we come close.

The threat of violence that the worker wielded against their employer was indeed a good incentive to keep things amicable.

Nowadays, we don't know where the Lords necessarily live, the size of the Lords private armies don't need to be more than a handful of security guards, and AI/Robotics is diminishing the need for that handful of guards at all.

Re: Your biggest vulnerability is your shitty compensation

#17

Post by Cthulhu_ »

xorcist wrote: post #15
Havoc wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Context suggests he’s in the US so not sure that sort of cross jurisdiction comparison is useful. You could just as easily say Europeans are entitled because their salaries are high compared to an Ethiopian. It’s not a useful comparison

The point was that a $100k+ compensation for a software office work is among the highest in the world . If a comparison with another high compensation area falls flat, then maybe that says something. Perhaps another US state would have been a better comparison. It might be hard for a software developer in Montana to identify with a Silicon Valley rant about salaries being too low. It would not cross my mind personall…

It may be high, but so is cost of living; a better way is to compare spending power.

Re: Your biggest vulnerability is your shitty compensation

#18

Post by popcorncowboy »

Havoc wrote: post #13

The pressures he describes seem correct and mirror what I’ve seen. Think he’s wrong about this being close to blowing up. Think that’s coloured by his own personal situation. I suspect unfortunately the powers that be correctly read the situation as significantly more room to squeeze. It might read as bad to usa ears but keep in mind there are people breaking down ships with zero safety, zero job security, low pay, b…

> People will bear crazy stuff and still show up to work

Because the "in the real world" alternative is so much worse. In theory: "Workers unite!", in practice: "Lose your home".

Re: Your biggest vulnerability is your shitty compensation

#19

Post by jghn »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #17
xorcist wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point was that a $100k+ compensation for a software office work is among the highest in the world . If a comparison with another high compensation area falls flat, then maybe that says something. Perhaps another US state would have been a better comparison. It might be hard for a software developer in Montana to identify with a Silicon Valley rant about salaries being too low. It would not cross my mind personall…

It may be high, but so is cost of living; a better way is to compare spending power.

There is no reasonable metric by which one can claim US software devs are hard up I think is the point being made.

Everyone would like to make more but I was interpreting this thread as suggesting a us dev whining that as a field they’re being mistreated comes off a bit gauche

Re: Your biggest vulnerability is your shitty compensation

#20

Post by bluGill »

Wages are set by economic rules, things like supply and demand, not median house prices. That said, people who are getting a low wages might accept to be in a low-down economy such as today, however, as soon as the economy goes up, they're going to be looking to move. Thus, even when you can get by with hiring someone for a very low wage relative to what they could have made in previous years, it is often best to assume that the economy will get better and those people are going to want to move if you're only offering low wages. But if you offer a good wage, that means that those people, when the economy picks up, aren't going to be looking for a new job and so you can keep them instead of having to hire and train someone new when the economy picks up.

I don't know why median house prices are even factor at all in what you think you wage you a wage you accept would be. If you can't afford a house, that means you have to lower your standard of living. There are lots of people who live in less than median houses. That's part of the way averages and statistics work. If you don't like the median house prices, you may have to look at what's going on in your city that the house prices are so high. There are certainly issues in Silicon Valley that need to be addressed, but they are not issues of wages. They are other issues that they need to address. You are always welcome to live in a house that is lower than the median wage and that may be what is needed in order to afford something.

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