Shameless plug (as a board member): If you are interested in the book that this is from, a great way to pick it up is on the EFF website, where your purchase helps EFF keep up the fight for privacy. https://www.eff.org/Privacys-Defender
How Mark Klein told the EFF about Room 641A [book excerpt]
141–150 of 273 posts
Re: How Mark Klein told the EFF about Room 641A [book excerpt]
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
Every administration effectively creates their own interpretation of what is permissible in this regard. The rules of engagement as it were that are set down by each administration vary widely. Nonetheless, it has effectively become a one-way ratchet.
I would push back against the idea that intelligence agency behavior changes administration to administration. Looking through history, it's the intelligence agencies which have superior continuity of leadership. Which suggests things about who's directing who.
Bureaucracy in general exhibits that kind of hysteresis. It is like a running average of who has been in charged mixed with a big dose of the culture that people who choose that sort of career create. Ironically, that inertia is considered by political scientists to be a safeguard for democracy.
Re: How Mark Klein told the EFF about Room 641A [book excerpt]
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would push back against the idea that intelligence agency behavior changes administration to administration. Looking through history, it's the intelligence agencies which have superior continuity of leadership. Which suggests things about who's directing who.
Bureaucracy in general exhibits that kind of hysteresis. It is like a running average of who has been in charged mixed with a big dose of the culture that people who choose that sort of career create. Ironically, that inertia is considered by political scientists to be a safeguard for democracy.
It hits different when the bureaucracy's job is to collect and exploit secrets, and act in the shadows.
Re: How Mark Klein told the EFF about Room 641A [book excerpt]
#144Re: How Mark Klein told the EFF about Room 641A [book excerpt]
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
I never worked directly for them. I was a contractor. If all the people of conscience quit, they are left with a workforce without a conscience, which I guess is pretty much what they have now, at least in certain areas.
Yes that frees the people with a conscience to work on endeavours that challenge these corrupt institutions. That’s a good thing. It isn’t really a radical or counterintuitive thing to say ‘don’t do evil work for evil people.’ People who give mealy mouth excuses like ‘I was just following orders’ or ‘I was just a contractor’ are part of the problem.
> Yes that frees the people with a conscience to work on endeavours that challenge these corrupt institutions.
That... Isn't really how that works in the real world, though.
What happens when people with conscience leave legitimate institutions is that they lose legitimacy. Now you have a legitimate institution with power and no conscience, and a myriad of non-legitimate institutions with little power and some conscience.
This is a strictly worse situation to be in.
Re: How Mark Klein told the EFF about Room 641A [book excerpt]
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
That could be, but you should also be aware that many people will have the knee jerk reaction to reject statements like yours as being paranoid and delusional. Assuredly sometimes that is an appropriate response, but the drive to immediately reject narratives like yours is to protect ourselves from the doubt that validating your story would elicit. We do not want to believe those things are happening to those around…
Hi thank you, yes. This was my own explanation and reasoning that I eventually arrived to after seeing and experiencing what I did. I thank you for providing one of few non-gaslight responses, and being willing to engage me where I asked. (and treating me with dignity, thank you) I'll sit with several of your bits of statement.
When the internet psychiatry committee comes to diagnose you in a condescending way you just know they have your best interest at heart. There are plenty of people who are up to no good. You should expose and troll them but only briefly. Your duty as a citizen is to only briefly troll them, we should all do that. If you are overly persistent they will dedicate resources. Thankfully there are plenty of people up to no good and you can simply move on to (briefly!) upsetting the next topic. They currently seem to be actively failing at not curing cancer. There is also much fun to be had with devices that make large amounts of energy with little or no fuel. They don't have to be real, you only need the lab reports and journal articles that describe them as such. You can be sure to assemble your own ward full of internet psychiatrist craving to diagnose you with the same. Whats the term for it... uhhh... ah right medical pseudoscience.
Re: How Mark Klein told the EFF about Room 641A [book excerpt]
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's easy for others to say, "oy, you coward, you should have blown the whistle" from the comfort their web browsers. For what it's worth, I had a security clearance in a previous job (not as high as yours, I'm sure) and I understand where you are coming from. I would have likely done the same as you. Especially with my career and the ability to provide for my family on the line.
It's probably different if you have a family, but I have quit jobs over moral implications no problem. Most people have pretty flimsy morals and will do anything to keep the money rolling in.
Most people have no safety net and if the money stops rolling in their life is effectively ruined for several years
Re: How Mark Klein told the EFF about Room 641A [book excerpt]
#148The article ends with "we were all a little worried." Is this where it's supposed to end? Feels incomplete. I'm hooked anyway.
Re: How Mark Klein told the EFF about Room 641A [book excerpt]
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
Source?
Hackers 2: operation takedown is based on a true story. https://www.cybereason.com/blog/malicious-life-podcast-kevin... > his brother introduced him to a hacker named Eric Heinz, who told him about a mysterious piece of equipment he came across while breaking into Pacific Bell: SAS, a testing system that allowed its user to listen in on all the calls going through the telephone network. SAS proved to be too great of…
Thanks. SAS = Switched Access Services
Re: How Mark Klein told the EFF about Room 641A [book excerpt]
#150"One big change impacting surveillance was clear: Prior to September 11, the U.S. had what could reasonably be called a “wall” separating foreign surveillance for national security purposes done by the NSA from domestic surveillance for law enforcement purposes done by the FBI." It turns out that the above statement is not entirely correct. I was aware of this rule at the time (early 90's), and was very surprised to…
You don't sign NDAs with the government, you sign a lifetime obligation [1] where the penalty is treason. I doubt you did or saw any such things.
1. https://media.defense.gov/2021/Oct/18/2002875198/-1/-1/0/NSA...