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How Mark Klein told the EFF about Room 641A [book excerpt]

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Re: How Mark Klein told the EFF about Room 641A [book excerpt]

#121

Post by anonymousiam »

Teever wrote: post #111
bityard wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's easy for others to say, "oy, you coward, you should have blown the whistle" from the comfort their web browsers. For what it's worth, I had a security clearance in a previous job (not as high as yours, I'm sure) and I understand where you are coming from. I would have likely done the same as you. Especially with my career and the ability to provide for my family on the line.

The mistake wasn't in not blowing the whistle but it was taking a job with this kind of organization in the first place. Yeah the solution is to not put yourself into a position where you need to make these choices. The fuel for the fire that are organizations like the CIA are people who don't have moral qualms or who have flexible ones. The less people who work for these organizations the better.

I never worked directly for them. I was a contractor.

If all the people of conscience quit, they are left with a workforce without a conscience, which I guess is pretty much what they have now, at least in certain areas.

Re: How Mark Klein told the EFF about Room 641A [book excerpt]

#122

Post by bsimpson »

rsingel wrote: post #19

This is a great behind-the-scenes look at the NSA-Hepting case. Can't wait to read Cohn's book. Also RIP Mark Klein. A true American hero who never tried to turn his whistle-blowing into becoming a celebrity.

Sounds like he lived to be 80 and died recently of cancer.

That's a better outcome than I'd feared.

Re: How Mark Klein told the EFF about Room 641A [book excerpt]

#123

Post by badlibrarian »

I suppose this is as good a place as any to dump this. In 2002, I was hosting a 1U server in downtown Los Angeles. No cages, minimal security, pretty sure I just walked in.

Crash carts sat unattended, usually a screen filled with porn and a cable running on the floor to the nearest tap. I got the feeling that many of the techs were hosting porn sites as a side gig.

On my second visit, in plain sight, was new construction. A corner of the room with what looked like four inch fiber bundles going in and out. One dusty, one fresh. Taped dry-wall, unpainted. If the door wasn't so fancy you'd never look twice.

Is that...? Dude grimaced and nodded.

Re: How Mark Klein told the EFF about Room 641A [book excerpt]

#124

Post by dr_dshiv »

badlibrarian wrote: post #123

I suppose this is as good a place as any to dump this. In 2002, I was hosting a 1U server in downtown Los Angeles. No cages, minimal security, pretty sure I just walked in. Crash carts sat unattended, usually a screen filled with porn and a cable running on the floor to the nearest tap. I got the feeling that many of the techs were hosting porn sites as a side gig. On my second visit, in plain sight, was new construc…

Is that… what?? Is this technical innuendo?

Re: How Mark Klein told the EFF about Room 641A [book excerpt]

#125

Post by mgiampapa »

trinsic2 wrote: post #115
mrandish wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully, this comes as no more of a spoiler than revealing the Titanic sinks at the end of the movie... but, everything Mark Klein revealed in 2006 (and that Snowden revealed in 2014) is still happening daily - along with much, much worse. And just this week congress is acting to further extend the secret extra-expanded FISA powers we don't even know about. U.S. Senator Ron Wyden is on the Senate Intelligence Commi…

its been going on for decades... I don't know if there is an answer to this problem

Encrypt everything, all the time, everywhere, use quantum hardened encryption wherever possible.

Re: How Mark Klein told the EFF about Room 641A [book excerpt]

#126

Post by ZephyrP »

nickburns wrote: post #91

arpwatch running on an edge router of mine tells me that there's a host with a DoD-registered IP address connected to my (major US) ISP network segment, which I know for a fact contains both business and residential subscribers. I port scanned it when I first discovered it just to say 'hello', and I have little doubt that a dragnet surveillance apparatus lives on the other side of that firewall. Governments have util…

A long-forgotten machine on a DoD network sounds like the kind of host that could serve for idle scanning or any other technique using a forged source address and a predictable dummy host; I imagine that arpwatch takes a view of network security focused on classifying frames and less on connection behavior.

Re: How Mark Klein told the EFF about Room 641A [book excerpt]

#127

Post by dylan604 »

bobanrocky wrote: post #97
dylan604 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unlike Snowden, I kept this to myself because I had signed (many) NDAs with the US Government. You say this like you are proud of it. Admittedly, I cannot say what I would do in that situation as I've never been in that situation, but I'd hope I'd have the fortitude to speak up on it. Having employees/contractors doing tasks that are illegal just because they came from the higher ups is no different than soldiers r…

That is an unfair insinuation - ‘that he sounds proud of it’. There are many reasons one stays quiet - like you are sole provider for a family, its beem going on for a while that you ignore/doubt its seriousness etc.

That's just the way the "Unlike Snowden" part read to me. Had you read further down the thread, you'd see I had already stipulated the family part before you made your comment.

Re: How Mark Klein told the EFF about Room 641A [book excerpt]

#128

Post by ShroudedNight »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #124
badlibrarian wrote: post #123

I suppose this is as good a place as any to dump this. In 2002, I was hosting a 1U server in downtown Los Angeles. No cages, minimal security, pretty sure I just walked in. Crash carts sat unattended, usually a screen filled with porn and a cable running on the floor to the nearest tap. I got the feeling that many of the techs were hosting porn sites as a side gig. On my second visit, in plain sight, was new construc…

Is that… what?? Is this technical innuendo?

I assume the implication was an intercept facility.

Re: How Mark Klein told the EFF about Room 641A [book excerpt]

#129

Post by calvinmorrison »

bityard wrote: post #92
anonymousiam wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not proud of it at all. The revelation was startling to me, and I was pretty unhappy about it. It was done in the name of "stopping bad people from doing bad things", but it was still illegal (at least in the white world). Snowden had the same dilemma. He was asking the NSA lawyers about the legality of their programs, and he never got an honest answer. Quitting would not have stopped the activity, and disclosing…

It's easy for others to say, "oy, you coward, you should have blown the whistle" from the comfort their web browsers. For what it's worth, I had a security clearance in a previous job (not as high as yours, I'm sure) and I understand where you are coming from. I would have likely done the same as you. Especially with my career and the ability to provide for my family on the line.

Or just like, don't work for the government. simple as. Some people have morals, some people want money. It's OK. We get it, AI startup engineer hell bent on destroying thought work. We get it rastifarian bomb builder for the US navy. we get it All American who works for the chinese virualogy lab. it's just work its not your life. just do whatever and make money.

Re: How Mark Klein told the EFF about Room 641A [book excerpt]

#130

Post by Teever »

anonymousiam wrote: post #121
Teever wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mistake wasn't in not blowing the whistle but it was taking a job with this kind of organization in the first place. Yeah the solution is to not put yourself into a position where you need to make these choices. The fuel for the fire that are organizations like the CIA are people who don't have moral qualms or who have flexible ones. The less people who work for these organizations the better.

I never worked directly for them. I was a contractor. If all the people of conscience quit, they are left with a workforce without a conscience, which I guess is pretty much what they have now, at least in certain areas.

Yes that frees the people with a conscience to work on endeavours that challenge these corrupt institutions.

That’s a good thing.

It isn’t really a radical or counterintuitive thing to say ‘don’t do evil work for evil people.’

People who give mealy mouth excuses like ‘I was just following orders’ or ‘I was just a contractor’ are part of the problem.

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