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Anonymous takes down over 550 Israeli sites, wipes databases

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Re: Anonymous takes down over 550 Israeli sites, wipes databases

#101

Post by MichaelSalib »

tzs wrote: post #40
aerodog wrote: post #6

Anonymous deserves our kudos on this one. It's true that these dbs may have backups, but as the world just watches, it's nice to see someone at least trying to put Israel's feet to the fire in the capacity they can.

How about putting Hamas' feet to the fire? They have been condemned by human rights groups for widespread arrests, torture, and killing of their political opponents in Gaza. They have simply been terrible for the Palestinian people. Besides suppressing political opposition, they also purposefully try to launch attacks from heavily populated civilian areas hoping that the civilians will end up acting as human shields.

So, Hamas is about average for governments that the US supports?

Re: Anonymous takes down over 550 Israeli sites, wipes databases

#102

Post by gadders »

kamaal wrote: post #85
aes256 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't carpet-bombing. Israel are only engaging in pinpoint strikes on legitimate military targets. Where should citizens run? Around 100m away from any rocket manufacturing, storage or launch site should be sufficient. That means most of the Gaza Strip is safe.

No sorry you don't address the point everybody else is making in this thread, which is that you seem to suggest bombing is OK as long you pre-inform the people you plan bomb couple of hours before.

If your strategy is to deliberately hide behind civilians when firing your rockets, when those civilians get hit I don't think the responsibility for it lies with Isarel.

Re: Anonymous takes down over 550 Israeli sites, wipes databases

#103

Post by kript »

soul2ebl wrote: post #87
aes256 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The effectiveness of using civilians as human shields does not justify the practice.

YOU ARE AN IGNORANT TROLL! STUPID PEOPLE TEND TO BE MORE CONFIDENT BECAUSE THEY LACK KNOWLEDGE.

I dont know if he's a troll, or just stupid, or a jew

Re: Anonymous takes down over 550 Israeli sites, wipes databases

#104

Post by MichaelSalib »

maratd wrote: post #100
MichaelSalib wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can they control what goes through those borders? Can they control what happens in the airspace above their territory? Do they have a seat at the UN? The answer is no to all 3. Question: if I want to fly into Gaza, whose permission do I need? Hamas' permission is clearly insufficient: the IDF will shoot down any plane landing there. So they're not at all an independent state.

Being under embargo/blockade is not the same as having no state. When the US did the same to Cuba 50 years ago, Cuba didn't magically disappear or become invalid. Do you know why the US did that to Cuba? They were smuggling missiles in. See a pattern there?

If you have no control of what enters or leaves your territory, no control over the air above your head or the electromagnetic spectrum, and no international passports, I don't see how you can be a state.

The whole point of a state is that it has some effective control.

Re: Anonymous takes down over 550 Israeli sites, wipes databases

#105

Post by gadders »

jpxxx wrote: post #50
aes256 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a large-scale armed conflict. Civilians are going to get caught in the crossfire. Alas, it's a strange sort of conflict in which one side deliberately targets civilians, while the other does everything humanly possible to avoid them.

No, this is pretty much the regular kind of conflict. Looks like apartheid, smells like ethnic cleansing, and ends up with plenty of bodies on both sides.

Yes, because in Apartheid South Africa, you had black justices on the Supreme Court, just like you have Palestinians Justices on the Israeli Supreme Court. Oh, hold on...

Re: Anonymous takes down over 550 Israeli sites, wipes databases

#106

Post by kamaal »

gadders wrote: post #97
kamaal wrote: post #82

As an Indian and somebody who studied the non violence moment of Gandhi both in South Africa and India. I can talk about the nature of political movements, I studied in quite a great detail. Even in India, the nature of non violence movement was not completely non violent- Its true that non violence came as a overwhelming force for the British. But the British did deal and perceive violent revolutionary sources as a…

Slightly off-topic: I read somewhere once that Ghandi advised German Jewish Leaders that they should have tried his tactic of non-violence against the Nazis. I think they replied that the British Empire, although wrong, weren't monsters like the Nazis.

That's actually true. In fact you can read that on Gandhi's wikiquote page - http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Mohandas_K._Gandhi [To Every Briton (1940)]

Actually non violence worked for more than one reason. Its also that the British, after world war 2 had no where the resources to control a massive country like India. It was also there purpose was done, and things were getting way out of their control. And it was better to leave honorably.

Re: Anonymous takes down over 550 Israeli sites, wipes databases

#107

Post by gadders »

MichaelSalib wrote: post #95
maratd wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> where people were denied the right to have a state to live in You realize Hamas was voted in, right? 1. Elected government? Check. 2. Borders? Check. They have a state. Not being formally recognized in the UN is just that ... a formality.

Can they control what goes through those borders? Can they control what happens in the airspace above their territory? Do they have a seat at the UN? The answer is no to all 3. Question: if I want to fly into Gaza, whose permission do I need? Hamas' permission is clearly insufficient: the IDF will shoot down any plane landing there. So they're not at all an independent state.

You realise Gaza has a border with Egypt as well, right? You can't blame Israel for keeping that one closed.

Re: Anonymous takes down over 550 Israeli sites, wipes databases

#108

Post by kamaal »

deadbea7 wrote: post #99
kamaal wrote: post #82

As an Indian and somebody who studied the non violence moment of Gandhi both in South Africa and India. I can talk about the nature of political movements, I studied in quite a great detail. Even in India, the nature of non violence movement was not completely non violent- Its true that non violence came as a overwhelming force for the British. But the British did deal and perceive violent revolutionary sources as a…

> Even in India, the nature of non violence movement was not completely non violent It's difficult, if not impossible, for non-violent movements to succeed without the existence of credible threat of violence. Sad, but generally true. This was true of Ghandi and Bhagat Singh's India, as it was for ANC (or MK) and Mandela's South Africa. The Israelis have little motivation to come to the negotiating table towards a di…

I think it was Thomas Friedman who said this, if the Palestinians resort to terror attacks, Israel will just use that to attack them more. They remain silent, and they will just go on building settlements. Either way they will lose.

Gandhi's non violence movement was successful because he won the PR war by a very heavy margin. Greatest intellectuals of his time were writing essays on him, images of a thin old man, wearing just a homespun cloth marching on streets, giving speeches to keep restraint and never to submit co operate to bend to the British. Combined with his cause for the poor, and fighting against traditional caste based problems in India made him a hero among rural masses. All in all it made the British look very bad to be even putting up a fight against him.

If there is a every a break out of videos or pictures of Palestinians going on mass hunger fasts. Or that of they standing in the line of fire embracing bullets in the face of a F-16 firing on them and they not retaliating back. Things like that can do far more damage than rocket attacks can.

In fact there was some Palestinian guy and a couple of women who fasted in the Israeli jails and got their way some months back. Its surprising who much 'not fighting' can be powerful than 'fighting' provided you get the Press coverage.

Palestine's Gandhi movement can be very dangerous for the Israelis.

Re: Anonymous takes down over 550 Israeli sites, wipes databases

#109

Post by MichaelSalib »

kamaal wrote: post #108
deadbea7 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even in India, the nature of non violence movement was not completely non violent It's difficult, if not impossible, for non-violent movements to succeed without the existence of credible threat of violence. Sad, but generally true. This was true of Ghandi and Bhagat Singh's India, as it was for ANC (or MK) and Mandela's South Africa. The Israelis have little motivation to come to the negotiating table towards a di…

I think it was Thomas Friedman who said this, if the Palestinians resort to terror attacks, Israel will just use that to attack them more. They remain silent, and they will just go on building settlements. Either way they will lose. Gandhi's non violence movement was successful because he won the PR war by a very heavy margin. Greatest intellectuals of his time were writing essays on him, images of a thin old man, we…

Things like that can do far more damage than rocket attacks can.

No, not really. We have cases like this:

http://thinkprogress.org/yglesias/2011/05/17/201019/non-viol...

and it doesn't seem to change anything.

Also, is there any writer on foreign affairs more ignorant than Thomas Friedman?

Re: Anonymous takes down over 550 Israeli sites, wipes databases

#110

Post by jpxxx »

gadders wrote: post #105
jpxxx wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this is pretty much the regular kind of conflict. Looks like apartheid, smells like ethnic cleansing, and ends up with plenty of bodies on both sides.

Yes, because in Apartheid South Africa, you had black justices on the Supreme Court, just like you have Palestinians Justices on the Israeli Supreme Court. Oh, hold on...

An atrocious effort and a waste of otherwise serviceable sarcasm. Please try again.
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