Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How Mark Klein told the EFF about Room 641A [book excerpt]

thereader.mitpress.mit.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 273 posts

Re: How Mark Klein told the EFF about Room 641A [book excerpt]

#91

Post by nickburns »

arpwatch running on an edge router of mine tells me that there's a host with a DoD-registered IP address connected to my (major US) ISP network segment, which I know for a fact contains both business and residential subscribers. I port scanned it when I first discovered it just to say 'hello', and I have little doubt that a dragnet surveillance apparatus lives on the other side of that firewall.

Governments have utilized clandestine wiretaps for as long as there have been wires. Bad guys and the children and all that. Not to mention, what an advantage that people think you're kooky when you talk openly about this stuff!

Re: How Mark Klein told the EFF about Room 641A [book excerpt]

#92

Post by bityard »

anonymousiam wrote: post #77
dylan604 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unlike Snowden, I kept this to myself because I had signed (many) NDAs with the US Government. You say this like you are proud of it. Admittedly, I cannot say what I would do in that situation as I've never been in that situation, but I'd hope I'd have the fortitude to speak up on it. Having employees/contractors doing tasks that are illegal just because they came from the higher ups is no different than soldiers r…

I'm not proud of it at all. The revelation was startling to me, and I was pretty unhappy about it. It was done in the name of "stopping bad people from doing bad things", but it was still illegal (at least in the white world). Snowden had the same dilemma. He was asking the NSA lawyers about the legality of their programs, and he never got an honest answer. Quitting would not have stopped the activity, and disclosing…

It's easy for others to say, "oy, you coward, you should have blown the whistle" from the comfort their web browsers. For what it's worth, I had a security clearance in a previous job (not as high as yours, I'm sure) and I understand where you are coming from. I would have likely done the same as you. Especially with my career and the ability to provide for my family on the line.

Re: How Mark Klein told the EFF about Room 641A [book excerpt]

#93

Post by Silamoth »

Spooky23 wrote: post #27
GeekyBear wrote: post #18

The problem is that modern Americans politicize everything. There was a short period at the end of the Bush years when this was a big deal, but as soon as the gaslighting was coming from both political teams, it became a non-issue politically. > President Obama defended the U.S. government's surveillance programs, telling NBC's Jay Leno on Tuesday that: "There is no spying on Americans." "We don't have a domestic spy…

Ironically from the perspective of 2026, the actual "conservative" conservatives were the key opponents. The "total information awareness" and national ID efforts were really killed by the conservatives in congress. The "neocons" and moderate/conservative democrats were mostly fine with both.

What does national ID have to do with government surveillance?

Re: How Mark Klein told the EFF about Room 641A [book excerpt]

#94

Post by hackthemack »

anonymousiam wrote: post #66

"One big change impacting surveillance was clear: Prior to September 11, the U.S. had what could reasonably be called a “wall” separating foreign surveillance for national security purposes done by the NSA from domestic surveillance for law enforcement purposes done by the FBI." It turns out that the above statement is not entirely correct. I was aware of this rule at the time (early 90's), and was very surprised to…

It is my understanding that the US Government set up a system, long, long ago, where the British would spy on Americans and then the British would supply the information to the NSA, thereby the NSA is not technically spying on American citizens.

Words mean nothing. They can be interpreted how ever they need to be interpreted by those in power.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON

Re: How Mark Klein told the EFF about Room 641A [book excerpt]

#97

Post by bobanrocky »

dylan604 wrote: post #70
anonymousiam wrote: post #66

"One big change impacting surveillance was clear: Prior to September 11, the U.S. had what could reasonably be called a “wall” separating foreign surveillance for national security purposes done by the NSA from domestic surveillance for law enforcement purposes done by the FBI." It turns out that the above statement is not entirely correct. I was aware of this rule at the time (early 90's), and was very surprised to…

> Unlike Snowden, I kept this to myself because I had signed (many) NDAs with the US Government. You say this like you are proud of it. Admittedly, I cannot say what I would do in that situation as I've never been in that situation, but I'd hope I'd have the fortitude to speak up on it. Having employees/contractors doing tasks that are illegal just because they came from the higher ups is no different than soldiers r…

That is an unfair insinuation - ‘that he sounds proud of it’. There are many reasons one stays quiet - like you are sole provider for a family, its beem going on for a while that you ignore/doubt its seriousness etc.

Re: How Mark Klein told the EFF about Room 641A [book excerpt]

#98

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

john_strinlai wrote: post #85
rdevilla wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Just go on and assume my race is Italian or Roman or something next. every time you can't refute something, you bring in gender or race. its one of the strangest things ive seen.

Trolls get bored sometimes.

Re: How Mark Klein told the EFF about Room 641A [book excerpt]

#99

Post by ACCount37 »

anonymousiam wrote: post #77
dylan604 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unlike Snowden, I kept this to myself because I had signed (many) NDAs with the US Government. You say this like you are proud of it. Admittedly, I cannot say what I would do in that situation as I've never been in that situation, but I'd hope I'd have the fortitude to speak up on it. Having employees/contractors doing tasks that are illegal just because they came from the higher ups is no different than soldiers r…

I'm not proud of it at all. The revelation was startling to me, and I was pretty unhappy about it. It was done in the name of "stopping bad people from doing bad things", but it was still illegal (at least in the white world). Snowden had the same dilemma. He was asking the NSA lawyers about the legality of their programs, and he never got an honest answer. Quitting would not have stopped the activity, and disclosing…

The "ends justify the means" mentality in various government security agencies is very, very real.

Re: How Mark Klein told the EFF about Room 641A [book excerpt]

#100

Post by TacticalCoder »

timschmidt wrote: post #71
anonymousiam wrote: post #66

"One big change impacting surveillance was clear: Prior to September 11, the U.S. had what could reasonably be called a “wall” separating foreign surveillance for national security purposes done by the NSA from domestic surveillance for law enforcement purposes done by the FBI." It turns out that the above statement is not entirely correct. I was aware of this rule at the time (early 90's), and was very surprised to…

People need to know about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction as well. The technique is used to shield these secret programs by laundering the information they collect through plausible evidentiary chains.

> People need to know about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction as well.

The number of terrorists who have been caught because they were controlled by a police officer "because they ran a traffic light" (yeah, sure) is wild.

In the EU at some point after every single terrorist attack the terrorists' names were known because they had left their passports in a car they left at the scene. (yeah, sure again).

The really amazing thing is that they don't know the name of the terrorists right away: because the terrorists don't have the passport on themselves apparently. No: they all leave them in the last car they used.

Probably that, by now, terrorists see past terror attacks and think: "Oh, I'm supposed to have my passport with me, but then leave in the last vehicle I'll use before killing people".

Post reply on HN