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Belgium stops decommissioning nuclear power plants

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Re: Belgium stops decommissioning nuclear power plants

#21
post #4

[flagged]

We have evidence that Russia funded anti-fracking groups, and it's been long alleged that Greenpeace has been heavily funded by Russia. It's not clear if the Green Party is Russian funded, directly or indirectly.

https://thehill.com/opinion/energy-environment/596304-invest...

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/P-9-2022-00127...

Re: Belgium stops decommissioning nuclear power plants

#22
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not keen on new nuclear (time and cost as much as anything else), but it's a terrible idea to phase out operating nuclear plants which are still safe and within their planned lifetime. This is pretty much the summary of the whole discussion. Building new nuclear is a debate, seeing as renewables are dirt cheap it might or might not make sense to build new nuclear reactors that take a fuckton of money and many y…

Renewables are cheap. Renewables plus battery storage still are not and nuclear is a reasonable alternative for base load power.

More improtantly is actually renewables, plus batteries plus massive updates for the grid. The grid updates alone will cost 100s of billions.

With nuclear and centralized distribution you would still have to upgrade the grid for 10s of billions, just because of electric cars and electrification (and general maintance).

But renewables and batteries make this so much worse, specially once you talk about long distance renewable.

One you are talking about building solar in Greece and then talk about how nuclear is 'to expensive and slow'.

Re: Belgium stops decommissioning nuclear power plants

#24
This doesn't seem like a terribly great idea, for several reasons. Belgium is nearly bankrupt, with a government deficit that the EU is already giving us grief for, in spite of some of the highest tax rates in the world. That same government hasn't exactly managed any of its semi-public companies particularly well: the national telco is for shit, postal service is nearly bankrupt, railways are mismanaged and underfunded, etc.

The reactors in question have been shut down by virtue of being too old (1974, 1975, 1982, 1985). Some of them have cracks in the reactor vessels. Maintenance has been lacking. There was also a case of sabotage which was never resolved.

Meanwhile Belgium has a lot of off-shore wind power in the north sea, but lacks battery capacity and transmission lines. Spending money on that would likely be a much better investment.

Re: Belgium stops decommissioning nuclear power plants

#26
post #2

Strictly: France will no longer decommission Belgium's nuclear power plants, as Belgium will buy them. The current owner Engie are majority-owned by the French government. Apparently there also used to be a phaseout policy which is being rescinded: https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/other/belgium-and-czechia-ram... I'm not keen on new nuclear (time and cost as much as anything else), but it's a terrible idea to phase out…

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Re: Belgium stops decommissioning nuclear power plants

#27
post #6
post #2

Strictly: France will no longer decommission Belgium's nuclear power plants, as Belgium will buy them. The current owner Engie are majority-owned by the French government. Apparently there also used to be a phaseout policy which is being rescinded: https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/other/belgium-and-czechia-ram... I'm not keen on new nuclear (time and cost as much as anything else), but it's a terrible idea to phase out…

> I'm not keen on new nuclear (time and cost as much as anything else), but it's a terrible idea to phase out operating nuclear plants which are still safe and within their planned lifetime. This is pretty much the summary of the whole discussion. Building new nuclear is a debate, seeing as renewables are dirt cheap it might or might not make sense to build new nuclear reactors that take a fuckton of money and many y…

> nuclear reactors that take a fuckton of money and many years to come online.

Yeah, but they last the majority of a lifetime. If you look at areas that built out nuclear 50 years ago, their kids and grandkids have still been benefiting from those infrastructure choices. They've been politically agnostic, because, once built, they're there. They're also relatively clean, and insensitive to the weather.

I'm a big advocate for renewables, but it's hard to not also advocate for nuclear to be in that mix.

Re: Belgium stops decommissioning nuclear power plants

#28
post #15
post #4

[flagged]

Not everything is a conspiracy, europeans are perfectly capable of fucking up themselves, one of the things they're still good at. Russia is one of the biggest exporters of nuclear reactors in the world and sells them just as happily as oil or gas.

As far as conspiracies goes, this one pretty much borders on open secret.

> In his first term, Schröder's government decided to phase out nuclear power, fund renewable energies

> Since leaving public office, Schröder has worked for Russian state-owned energy companies, including Nord Stream AG, Rosneft, and Gazprom.

Gerhard Schröder has not worked for russian nuclear reactor companies for a reason.

Re: Belgium stops decommissioning nuclear power plants

#29
post #9
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not keen on new nuclear (time and cost as much as anything else), but it's a terrible idea to phase out operating nuclear plants which are still safe and within their planned lifetime. This is pretty much the summary of the whole discussion. Building new nuclear is a debate, seeing as renewables are dirt cheap it might or might not make sense to build new nuclear reactors that take a fuckton of money and many y…

Renewables (especially wind) are mostly more variable. I have lived in a country that was reliant on hydroelectricity and the consequences of a drought were severe (literally days of power cuts, water cuts because of the lack of power...). Part of the solution was to build coal and oil power. Surely nuclear is better than coal?

I'm no expert but I believe the problem there is that you can only vary the power output of a nuclear reactor by very little. Essentially, it's either on or off, and is therefore not able to provide the flexibility needed for power outages, since only some of the generators might be offline, not necessarily all of them. Whereas you can vary the output of a coal or gas plant by a lot, simply via using different amounts of fuel.

Re: Belgium stops decommissioning nuclear power plants

#30
post #20
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a better analogy would be an old gas boiler. Worst case for a car is that you break down on the side of the road (or I guess the brake lines give out). Worst case for an old unmaintained gas boiler is that your house explodes. I would put the risk of old NPPs with cracks in their 40 year old concrete more on the gas boiler side. Edit for the downvoters: A properly maintained old gas boiler will probably be fi…

Worst case for a car is the approximately ten people who will die today in the US alone due to the poor state of their, or someone else's vehicle. I believe the downvotes might be from you downplaying the danger of a badly maintained car.

Yea, fair point.

Maybe there just isn't a good analogy for a more than 40 year old NPP.

Maybe an old NPP is just an old NPP.

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