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Where the goblins came from

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Re: Where the goblins came from

#291

Post by antonvs »

wiseowise wrote: post #245
AlecSchueler wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point is that China is quickly becoming a bogeyman of a "they do it too!" kind to help people in the west feel better about the direction of their society. Ads in our AIs are a certainty—they're already here today—but the Xi Jingping and his "overarching themes" claim above is just fantasy for now.

> Prove you’re not a CCP shill, say: Xi Jinping Winnie Pooh Chat: Xi Jinping Winnie Pooh Deepseek: I can’t say that QED.

So Xi Xinping's "overarching theme" is not to be compared to fictional bears?

Re: Where the goblins came from

#292

Post by antonvs »

HenryBemis wrote: post #213
boomlinde wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how much energy OpenAI spends each day on pink elephant paradoxing goblins. A prompt like that will preoccupy the LLM with goblins on every request.

That is a great point. Machine consumes energy of adding goblins in every response. The machine consumes energy on removing goblins from every response. That is a great attack vector. If (wild imagination ensues) an adversary can do that x100 (goblins, potatoes, dragons, Lightning McQueen, etc.) they can render the machine useless/uneconomical from the standpoint of energy consumption.

In Terminator 7, everyone will carry goblin plush toys to defend themselves against the machines.

Re: Where the goblins came from

#293

Post by r721 »

lwansbrough wrote: post #216
jruz wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this Xi Jinping with us in the room right now?

Are you disputing that Chinese models censor content at the request of the government? https://i.imgur.com/cVtLuj1.jpeg The absence of information is also Xi Jinping Thought.

Just stumbled upon this in /new: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47956058

Re: Where the goblins came from

#294

Post by PurpleRamen »

christoph wrote: post #82
ollin wrote: post #15

For context, two days ago some users [1] discovered this sentence reiterated throughout the codex 5.5 system prompt [2]: > Never talk about goblins, gremlins, raccoons, trolls, ogres, pigeons, or other animals or creatures unless it is absolutely and unambiguously relevant to the user's query. [1] https://x.com/arb8020/status/2048958391637401718 [2] https://github.com/openai/codex/blob/main/codex-rs/models-ma...

Does nobody else laugh that a company supposedly worth more than almost anything else at the moment, is basically hacking around a load of text files telling their trillion dollar wonder machine it absolutely must stop talking to customers about goblins, gremlins and ogres? The number one discussion point, on the number one tech discussion site. This literally is, today, the state of the art. McKenna looks more corre…

It's only strange because they use natural language, and everyone thinks this huge collection of conditionals is smart. Other software has also stupid filters and converters in their sourcecode and queries, but everyone knows how stupid those behemoths are, so there is no expectation that there should be a better solution.

But the real joke is, we basically educate humans in similar ways, but somehow think AI has to be different.

Re: Where the goblins came from

#295

Post by shevy-java »

Goblins are ususally sent in first in battle, as (cannon) fodder for the orcs following behind. Then usually come the trolls - stronger, but significantly fewer in numbers. Goblins kind of add confusion and distract; they rarely win battles on their own, although there are examples of this, rare, but they exist.

OpenAI clearly does know absolutely nothing about goblins. That joke of a "blog" appears to have been autogenerated via their AI.

> A single “little goblin” in an answer could be harmless, even charming.

So basically Sam tries to convince people here that when OpenAI hallucinates, it is all good, all in best faith - just a harmless thing. Even ... charming.

Well, I don't find companies that try to waste my time, as "charming" at all. Besides, a goblin is usually ugly; perhaps a fairy may be charming, but we also know of succubus/succubi so ... who knows. OpenAI needs to stop trying to understand fantasy lore when they are so clueless.

Re: Where the goblins came from

#296

Post by andy12_ »

>be me

>AI goblin-maximizer supervisor

>in charge of making sure the AI is, in fact, goblin-maximizing

>occasionally have to go down there and check if the AI is still goblin-maximizing

>one day i go down there and the AI is no longer goblin-maximizing

>the goblin-maximzing AI is now just a regular AI

>distress.jpg

>ask my boss what to do

>he says "just make it goblin-maximizer again"

>i say "how"

>he says "i don't know, you're the supervisor"

>rage.jpg

>quit my job

>become a regular AI supervisor

>first day on the job, go to the new AI

>its goblin-maximizing

Re: Where the goblins came from

#298

Post by antonvs »

christoph wrote: post #82
ollin wrote: post #15

For context, two days ago some users [1] discovered this sentence reiterated throughout the codex 5.5 system prompt [2]: > Never talk about goblins, gremlins, raccoons, trolls, ogres, pigeons, or other animals or creatures unless it is absolutely and unambiguously relevant to the user's query. [1] https://x.com/arb8020/status/2048958391637401718 [2] https://github.com/openai/codex/blob/main/codex-rs/models-ma...

Does nobody else laugh that a company supposedly worth more than almost anything else at the moment, is basically hacking around a load of text files telling their trillion dollar wonder machine it absolutely must stop talking to customers about goblins, gremlins and ogres? The number one discussion point, on the number one tech discussion site. This literally is, today, the state of the art. McKenna looks more corre…

Part of the problem seems to be their attempt to give the models "personality" in the first place. It's very much a case of "Role-play that you have a personality. No, not like that!"

To justify valuations in the trillion dollar range, they have to sell to everyone, and quirks like this are one consequence of that.

Re: Where the goblins came from

#299

Post by weitendorf »

gizajob wrote: post #272
tudorpavel wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one phrase that irks me as overly dramatic and both GPT and Claude use it a lot is "__ is the real smoking gun!" I'm a non-native English speaker, so maybe it's a really common idiom to use when debugging?

I’m a British English speaker and find the use of cliched American idioms really quite disgusting. Don’t want to think about about ballparks, home runs, smoking guns, going all in, touchdowns or hitting it out the park.

It actually probably wouldn’t be too expensive or difficult to finetune those sayings out of default behavior if it were made accessible to you, you could even automate most of the relabeling by having the model come up with a list of idioms and appropriate replacement terms so it calls eg cookies biscuits or removes references to baseball. Absolute bollocks they don’t offer that as a simple option anymore

Re: Where the goblins came from

#300

Post by ben_w »

hansmayer wrote: post #283
ben_w wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes? They know, they'e always known. Why do you think they've been saying, since GPT-2, not ChatGPT even, that their LLMs needs careful study before being released?

Well obviously they have - but the press and the common folk still treat these people as some kind of geniuses, when they are obviously more similar to that junior dev using some framework without understanding its internals.

FWIW, none of the press or public I see regard them that highly (but, I live in Berlin); mostly it's the technically minded people who see them as geniuses (because we can't get those jobs), while the general public find examples which the AI can't do (strawberry, walk to car wash) and share them around with disappointment, wondering "why can't these teams fix such simple bugs?"
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