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We need a federation of forges

blog.tangled.org

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Re: We need a federation of forges

#351

Post by zachlatta »

shimman wrote: post #340
zachlatta wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of absolutism is crazy. People who are doing 90% of what we want them to do should be greatly celebrated and rewarded. Else we penalize idealistic people who are not perfect instead of penalizing the people who are actually doing the opposite of what we care about (ex. Autodesk). Do you want software to become as closed source as mechanical engineering? No! So let's celebrate people building software that's…

This kind of absolutism is absolute necessary against tech leadership that are anti-democracy.

Two founders of a small startup in Europe trying to build a new decentralized git forge and open sourcing their code are anti-democracy?

Come on.

Re: We need a federation of forges

#352

Post by sakjur »

fgfarben wrote: post #207
OneDeuxTriSeiGo wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The jargon is just naming the free-standing components after rope/string related things. i.e. tangle, knot, spindle, etc.

I think they're mad because 'knot' is a furry fetish term.

Pretty much every word in English seems to have an innuendo meaning to someone, do anyone truly care past the age of 15?

I find Tangled's language a bit annoying because I'm pretty sure if this caught on it's even more single word concept rather needlessly. If the protocol is called Knot, then call a server a Knot instance or Knot server. If the runner protocol is called Spindle, each server which responds to that could be a Spindle runner. That'll serve two functions: It'll let people contextually hook the terms up against existing terms and still retain the option of evolving into singular word concepts if they prove successful enough for that to happen.

From my point of view as a non-native speaker, the frequent overloading of commonplace words add to the confusion of learning English. I don't like that. It's far from a big hurdle, but just big enough to earn a soft little sigh from me.

Your comment was the only thing that made me even care to comment: Isn't it rather unlikely that the person you're commenting on takes issue with a kink rather than any other reason why "knot" and "spindle" might be poor choices? Who knows, they might even have a good reason, but you started out with assuming bad faith and at least I tend to just leave conversations at that point.

Re: We need a federation of forges

#353

Post by Gigachad »

rafram wrote: post #209

How will this end up going any better than Mastodon has? Near inevitabilities: - All the small instances defederating from the largest due to politics/spam/annoying noobs/whatever, effectively killing the easiest path to entry into the community - Pointless debates about whether it’s OK to federate with instances that host pirated content, disagreeable politics, furry VNs, etc., which everyone has to take a side (the…

As well as a confusing onboarding where users have to pick an instance, something both incredibly important, but with very little info to base your decision on. Pick the wrong one and your project gets screwed when the random anonymous instance owner decides to shut it down or go on a power trip.

Resulting in everyone just picking the "default" instance.

Re: We need a federation of forges

#354

Post by NamlchakKhandro »

embedding-shape wrote: post #258
4lx87 wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The web is already structured like this. You can poll a URL for updates. You can host your own data. Anyone can build an app that aggregates from everyone's data.

Yes, all of those things are possible. Now imagine a protocol built from the ground up for those purposes, not just possible, but the entire community and ecosystem embracing those things.

you mean http?

Re: We need a federation of forges

#355

Post by krapp »

Gigachad wrote: post #353
rafram wrote: post #209

How will this end up going any better than Mastodon has? Near inevitabilities: - All the small instances defederating from the largest due to politics/spam/annoying noobs/whatever, effectively killing the easiest path to entry into the community - Pointless debates about whether it’s OK to federate with instances that host pirated content, disagreeable politics, furry VNs, etc., which everyone has to take a side (the…

As well as a confusing onboarding where users have to pick an instance, something both incredibly important, but with very little info to base your decision on. Pick the wrong one and your project gets screwed when the random anonymous instance owner decides to shut it down or go on a power trip. Resulting in everyone just picking the "default" instance.

>Pick the wrong one and your project gets screwed when the random anonymous instance owner decides to shut it down or go on a power trip.

You say this as if it happens often, but it's more likely that a smaller instance will go under because of costs, and there are tons of perfectly fine instances where this doesn't happen at all.

Also you can join more than one instance.

Also it costs very little to host your own instance.

This is not a problem that exists for most people using Mastodon.

I agree the onboarding process is a bit confusing but really it isn't much more confusing than subscribing to a subreddit, except your identity only exists on that subreddit rather than a separate account.

Which I would definitely agree is a flaw but not an insurmountable obstacle.

Re: We need a federation of forges

#357

Post by isodev »

rafram wrote: post #209

How will this end up going any better than Mastodon has? Near inevitabilities: - All the small instances defederating from the largest due to politics/spam/annoying noobs/whatever, effectively killing the easiest path to entry into the community - Pointless debates about whether it’s OK to federate with instances that host pirated content, disagreeable politics, furry VNs, etc., which everyone has to take a side (the…

How is any of this a bad thing? Isn’t the whole point to be able to do whatever you want in your corner of the federation?

Also, tangled is atproto based, the big blue mothership will always be in control.

Re: We need a federation of forges

#358

Post by janalsncm »

cxr wrote: post #323
miki123211 wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Atom is pull, Atproto is push. Atom was designed for news, before social media existed, where 15+ minute polling times were (borderline) acceptable. Atproto was designed for social media, in an age of Twitter users getting their news in seconds, to the point of being able to comment on live events play-by-play. There's no coming back from that world. With that said, I wish both Mastodon and Atproto supported opt-in p…

> Atproto was designed for social media, in an age of Twitter users getting their news in seconds, to the point of being able to comment on live events play-by-play. And this is widely recognized by now to have been a very bad thing, even/especially those most susceptible to its draw. It's strange that you're framing it as a strength and not a lament. > There's no coming back from that world. You can't say that when…

Because this is about synchronizing code and not realtime social media? Social media is just an example application of the technology.

Re: We need a federation of forges

#359

Post by aniviacat »

Kye wrote: post #42
knowtheory wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno man. Why was Tangled able to ship on top of ATProto even prior to getting funded, and ForgeFed has been hanging out for years?

That's become my answer to all "why not ActivityPub?" questions. AP isn't completely stagnant but there's a reason AT is still holding on to and accelerating that early developer excitement AP had. Maybe it's marketing, maybe it's money, maybe it's some technical thing. Maybe it's the community. Whatever it is, people seem to enjoy developing in the Atmosphere in a way I never saw on AP.

If you consider people's worries of centralization happening with AT, that's not necessarily a good sign.

Of course VC funding and startup mindsets prefer a protocol that is easier to rugpull.

Re: We need a federation of forges

#360

Post by aniviacat »

tardedmeme wrote: post #259
malicka wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Discoverability. Without federation, people are pretty much dependant on GitHub to make sure their software gets out there.

How do you discover new software using GitHub? Let's say I want an RSS reader for Linux - how does GitHub help me find one? I must have never used this part of GitHub.

Github ranks higher on Google search.
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