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Mistral Medium 3.5

mistral.ai

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Re: Mistral Medium 3.5

#41

Post by locknitpicker »

pb7 wrote: post #35
locknitpicker wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is the bar for Europe, huh? A few months ago China was being criticized left and right on how somehow it was not able to compete, and once DeepSeek showed up then all the hatred shifted onto how China was actually competing but exploring unfair competitive advantages. Funny how that works. Also, aren't the likes of OpenAI burning through over $2 of investment for each $1 of revenue?

[flagged]

> China is not competing, it is distilling US models.

I think you should check your notes. The likes of Kimi K2 thinking shows up as high as the second best general purpose model currently in existence. It seems they compete just fine.

If you believe "distilling" is all it takes to put together a model at the top of any synthetic benchmark then I wonder what you would have to say about all US models that greatly underperform in comparison and still manage to be used extensively in professional settings.

But your argument is an emotional one and not rarional, isn't it?

Re: Mistral Medium 3.5

#42

Post by tirpen »

pb7 wrote: post #35
locknitpicker wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is the bar for Europe, huh? A few months ago China was being criticized left and right on how somehow it was not able to compete, and once DeepSeek showed up then all the hatred shifted onto how China was actually competing but exploring unfair competitive advantages. Funny how that works. Also, aren't the likes of OpenAI burning through over $2 of investment for each $1 of revenue?

[flagged]

> China is not competing, it is distilling US models

China are cheating by using data obtained without permission to train their models in an evil commie way!

They should have done what the US did instead and trained models on data obtained without permission in a fair and freedum way!

> Where are the Chinese models that are blowing US ones out of the water?

Kimi2 blows every US model out of the water in any comparison that includes both costs and performance.

Re: Mistral Medium 3.5

#43

Post by nickthegreek »

pb7 wrote: post #35
locknitpicker wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is the bar for Europe, huh? A few months ago China was being criticized left and right on how somehow it was not able to compete, and once DeepSeek showed up then all the hatred shifted onto how China was actually competing but exploring unfair competitive advantages. Funny how that works. Also, aren't the likes of OpenAI burning through over $2 of investment for each $1 of revenue?

[flagged]

2 businesses working to get money from the same customers in the same field is competition. Kellogs is competing with store brand cereal. People are choosing to use these Chinese AI apis because they are good enough for some workflows and cheaper. If they didn't exist, the money would go to the frontier labs. There is no world where this would not be defined as competition.

Re: Mistral Medium 3.5

#44

Post by amarcheschi »

pb7 wrote: post #33
kubb wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a good chance that they'll catch up. The "AI race" is a race to the bottom, with the leaders blowing huge wads of cash on capabilities that get replicated months later by the competition at a fraction of the cost. The only benefit of leading is mindshare. OpenAI is doubling down on that, by investing in communication companies. That's their pathetic attempt at a "moat".

They catch up by distilling frontier models. They will eventually figure out how to prevent that from happening. No one has any interest in investing tens of billions if the product can be copied and sold for less.

>No one has any interest in investing tens of billions if the product can be copied and sold for less.

That is what has happened until now though

Re: Mistral Medium 3.5

#47

Post by simonw »

simonw wrote: post #40

I can't figure out if this is available in the official Mistral API or not. Their model listing API returns this: { "id": "mistral-medium-2508", "object": "model", "created": 1777479384, "owned_by": "mistralai", "capabilities": { "completion_chat": true, "function_calling": true, "reasoning": false, "completion_fim": false, "fine_tuning": true, "vision": true, "ocr": false, "classification": false, "moderation": fals…

Some poking around in the source code for https://github.com/mistralai/mistral-vibe got me to this:

  curl https://api.mistral.ai/v1/chat/completions \
  -H "Content-Type: application/json" \
  -H "Authorization: Bearer $(llm keys get mistral)" \
  -d '{
    "model": "mistral-medium-3.5",
    "messages": [
      {"role": "user", "content": "Generate an SVG of a pelican riding a bicycle"}
    ]
  }'
Which did work: https://gist.github.com/simonw/f3158919b18d2c47863b0a5dc257a... - it's pretty disappointing.

Weird that it doesn't show up in the model list:

  curl https://api.mistral.ai/v1/models \
    -H "Content-Type: application/json" \
    -H "Authorization: Bearer $(llm keys get mistral)" | jq

Re: Mistral Medium 3.5

#48

Post by nothinkjustai »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #29
postalcoder wrote: post #18

This release Mistral really reminds you of the gap between the frontier labs and everyone else. Pre-agent, there wasn't always an obvious difference between models. Various models had their charms. Nowadays, I don't want to entertain anything less than the frontier models. The difference in capability is enormous and choosing anything less has a real cost in terms of productivity. I've been a big fan of the smaller l…

> Pre-agent, there wasn't always an obvious difference between models. Various models had their charms. Nowadays, I don't want to entertain anything less than the frontier models. The difference in capability is enormous and choosing anything less has a real cost in terms of productivity. It's just apples to oranges. There is not a clear, across the board, winner on non-agentic tasks between Gemini, ChatGPT, and Clau…

CC is not better than Codex, nor is it better than OpenCode, Crush, Pi etc…

Re: Mistral Medium 3.5

#49

Post by postalcoder »

deaux wrote: post #32
postalcoder wrote: post #18

This release Mistral really reminds you of the gap between the frontier labs and everyone else. Pre-agent, there wasn't always an obvious difference between models. Various models had their charms. Nowadays, I don't want to entertain anything less than the frontier models. The difference in capability is enormous and choosing anything less has a real cost in terms of productivity. I've been a big fan of the smaller l…

Can't agree at all. Productivity gap just 1 year ago was much larger for frontier model vs non-frontier. Let alone 2 years ago.

When I was thinking pre-agentic, I was actually thinking more pre-"coding seen as the main use case for these models".
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