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An electric motor that does not need expensive rare-earth magnets

economist.com

31–39 of 39 posts

Re: An electric motor that does not need expensive rare-earth magnets

#31

If we created demand for Thorium, we could solve the energy and rare-earth problems with one blow. There is a kind of rare earth ore that we could mine profitably, if there was only something to do with the Thorium. http://www.forbes.com/sites/energysource/2011/03/28/rare-ear...

Thorium power is interesting, but in no way is it a substitute for other rare-earths.

Re: An electric motor that does not need expensive rare-earth magnets

#32

If we created demand for Thorium, we could solve the energy and rare-earth problems with one blow. There is a kind of rare earth ore that we could mine profitably, if there was only something to do with the Thorium. http://www.forbes.com/sites/energysource/2011/03/28/rare-ear...

Thorium power is interesting, but in no way is it a substitute for other rare-earths.

A thorium market would open up development of Monazite sands, which right now are uneconomic because of the cost of thorium disposal. This would give the US a supply of rare earths as well as solving global warming without introducing nuclear proliferation risk. The same technology could also be used to reduce the lifetime of radioactive waste from 10's of thousands of years to under 300.

Re: An electric motor that does not need expensive rare-earth magnets

#33
post #19

I went to the trouble of learning this just now, so I might as well share: The most basic electric motor is to have two electromagnets which can rotate with respect to each other. You can make one fixed, but the other has to rotate while still being powered . This requires an electrical connection for a spinning part, and the easiest way was "brushes", apparently. These are literally just metal wires with some spring…

And then there is the option mentioned in the article, where the spinning permanent magnet is not made of expensive rare-earth metals, but rather of a metal in which a magnetic field is induced by stationary windings.

Yep, thanks.

Re: An electric motor that does not need expensive rare-earth magnets

#34
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simplicity and reliability. The rotor is completely inert (no windings). The big drawback has historically been "torque ripple". However, with modern high-speed power electronics, the current to the windings can be modulated to counteract this. Full torque at 0 RPM. An SR machine combined with efficient backlash-free reducing gearing (torque amplification) may be able to deliver the reliability and torque density to…

Thank you very much. Exactly what I wanted to know. But, just a doubt, even Induction motors offer full torque at 0 RPM, right? Please correct me if I'm wrong, because that's what a reviewer said while comparing a BMW and the Tesla Model S. Thanks!

Depending on the control system, yes. If you run an induction motor off a fixed-frequency supply, it produces very little torque until it is spinning near it's synchronous speed (typically 3600 RPM, but depends on the supply frequency and pole multiplicity). That's why, for example, bench grinders can take forever to come up to speed.

But modern control systems (which, I might add, are still much simpler than those for switched reluctance motors) can achieve full torque from a standstill (basically by bringing the synchronous speed to near zero).

Re: An electric motor that does not need expensive rare-earth magnets

#35
I think the world is getting somewhat bamboozled here. Many of the commenters here correctly noted that induction motors (IMs) are brushless and have no permanent magnets too. Each tooth on the stator can pull the rotor towards it as well as push it away. This is not so for switched reluctance motors (SRM) of this company. The stator teeth in the SRM can only pull the rotor towards it. This is the reason for its worse performance than an induction motor for any given size. Also, SRMs tend to be much louder than IMs or permanent magnet machines. As for any claims of efficiency, the way to think about it is any motor type can be made as efficient as you like so long as you don't care how big it gets. You need to compare motors of the same size to each other before you see differences between the various types. And SRMs that this company is persuing are the worst of the bunch.

Re: An electric motor that does not need expensive rare-earth magnets

#36

Squirrel Cage Induction Motors have been around for years and have been used in Industry forever. No brushes, no magnets... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squirrel-cage_rotor

And jack all low end torque, something very important to car applications. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Variation-couple-uf.svg

Re: An electric motor that does not need expensive rare-earth magnets

#37

Squirrel Cage Induction Motors have been around for years and have been used in Industry forever. No brushes, no magnets... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squirrel-cage_rotor

And jack all low end torque, something very important to car applications. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Variation-couple-uf.svg

With a variable-frequency drive (or better yet, flux vector control) you can achieve full torque at zero speed with a squirrel-cage motor.

Re: An electric motor that does not need expensive rare-earth magnets

#38
post #6
post #2

Induction motors have long been in existence and they achieve the same goals too. In fact, many popular automotive companies still use Induction motors in their cars (Eg.Tesla). What makes these switch reluctance motors attractive over the induction motors , then? Could someone please clarify?? Thanks.

IIRC, Induction motors are great, but they have one major fault, without some complex circuitry, they can't be instantly switched on/off. Although a polyphase induction motor should not have that problem.

Induction motors used in vehicles are basically always three-phase machines driven by a variable-frequency inverter.

Re: An electric motor that does not need expensive rare-earth magnets

#39
post #34
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you very much. Exactly what I wanted to know. But, just a doubt, even Induction motors offer full torque at 0 RPM, right? Please correct me if I'm wrong, because that's what a reviewer said while comparing a BMW and the Tesla Model S. Thanks!

Depending on the control system, yes. If you run an induction motor off a fixed-frequency supply, it produces very little torque until it is spinning near it's synchronous speed (typically 3600 RPM, but depends on the supply frequency and pole multiplicity). That's why, for example, bench grinders can take forever to come up to speed. But modern control systems (which, I might add, are still much simpler than those f…

Thank you very much!
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