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HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

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Re: HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

#61

Post by Muromec »

WestCoader wrote: post #6

Nothing is pissing me off more than GitHub's stability going down the tubes RIGHT as work is migrating everything, and I mean everything, from CircleCI to GH. The wildest thing is that Azure Repos/Pipelines was better than this. Their one caveat is also that they are still migrating it to Azure infra, so it's possible that's still in a one foot in one foot out kinda scenario, from what I've heard. But, this isn't ins…

Azure repos are kinda fine. It's really basic and there is nothing to break. I actually really really like their ticketing thingy for the same reason. It has the necessary stuff and the management types can't add a million of fields to it and annoy me with reporting, burndown charts or what not.

Re: HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

#62

Post by jeena »

motbus3 wrote: post #46
anilakar wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We were on self-hosted Gitlab but after a merger were forced to Github. Navigation feels painful in comparison and basic features such as commit graph are now behind more expensive tiers.

Interesting! I worked with Gitlab and I also thought it was quite clunky. If it was not for the stability issues GitHub is fine. Any other alternatives to GH or GL?

We switched from Bit bucket to Gerrit internally and it was a steep learning curve for the des but it's fine.

At a customer we're implementing GitHub Actions and even on our Dev environment there are so many hickups with GitHub.

Re: HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

#63

Post by Mashimo »

motbus3 wrote: post #46
anilakar wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We were on self-hosted Gitlab but after a merger were forced to Github. Navigation feels painful in comparison and basic features such as commit graph are now behind more expensive tiers.

Interesting! I worked with Gitlab and I also thought it was quite clunky. If it was not for the stability issues GitHub is fine. Any other alternatives to GH or GL?

Jira / Bitbucket / Teamcity.

Might be pricy though.

Re: HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

#64

Post by cjbgkagh »

strictnein wrote: post #48
DanielHB wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely not, I remember some 4 years ago some random bug in a github-supported github-action and a comment in an issue saying: "I heard the team responsible for this action was laid off, don't expect a fix". This was shortly after the microsoft acquisition. But the vibe coding BS probably made it 10 times worse.

> I remember some 4 years ago ... This was shortly after the microsoft acquisition. The acquisition was 8 years ago.

They started with a hands off approach and then went hands on, I’m not sure but that ‘hands on’ timing is likely to happen shortly after the usual acquisition vesting period of 3 years when the old guard starts to leave.

Re: HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

#65

Post by embedding-shape »

Mashimo wrote: post #55
embedding-shape wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Honest question, why are companies interested in hosting on github? Mostly boils down to marketing and easier to establish a community. Almost every developer has an account there, leading to network effects being much larger, so if you're a new FOSS project, finding contributors and getting your project in front of other's eyes is much easier when you're on GitHub compared to your own Forgejo instance. With that s…

Oh FOSS projects I totally understand. It's where I go to too. But closed source companies surly don't need to establish a community?

Go with the flow, don't rock the boat and use what developers already know, are probably the most cited reasons I've heard.

I've tried so many times in the past to argue for self-hosted setup that you fully control if you can afford it, things just get so much smoother and if you're a software development company, you probably want to own the software development workflow E2E so you can actually ship as fast as you want.

Re: HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

#66

Post by cjbgkagh »

glenngillen wrote: post #32
Tade0 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even after decades, the policy is the same: Embrace, extend, and extinguish.

Which was a policy that increased their market dominance for their existing dominate products. What exactly are they extinguishing GitHub to the benefit of? Azure Repos?

Perhaps they can’t help themselves out of habit, it is their nature.

The original red dog team that started azure is long gone and the general success of the cloud papers over all levels of incompetence so that the incompetence is now entrenched and unable to do better.

Cloud service providers have this unfortunate property where poor designs will make more money which makes it hard to maintain a culture of excellence. I tried to push a design change that would result in a 10x throughput for a certain product and was told that a 90% drop in usage is the last thing they want. I self host my own stuff with GitLab, so far not a single unplanned outage in 6 years.

Perhaps a Roman decimation is in order, whenever GitHub experiences an outage fire one GitHub employee at random. That should help get interests in line and allow for cross org cooperation. With 150 outages per year and a staff of 6,000 that amounts to 2.5% per year if no improvements are made.

Re: HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

#68

Post by Mashimo »

jeena wrote: post #62
motbus3 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting! I worked with Gitlab and I also thought it was quite clunky. If it was not for the stability issues GitHub is fine. Any other alternatives to GH or GL?

We switched from Bit bucket to Gerrit internally and it was a steep learning curve for the des but it's fine. At a customer we're implementing GitHub Actions and even on our Dev environment there are so many hickups with GitHub.

Demo of Gerrit here: https://gerrithub.io/q/status:open+-is:wip

Re: HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

#69

Post by HWR_14 »

parthdesai wrote: post #50
motbus3 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could be. But 99% of the repos are static garbage with no PR nor actions. They mentioned they have some elasticsearch reindexing going to, I would guess they needed to regard or move stuff and something didn't work well. But if I understood it right they mentioned the PRs ES index which they didn't shared proof increased as the number of repos. It might be anything. It seems they lost huge chunks due to layoffs and s…

Serious question, have you been part of an org that had to scale orders of magnitude very quickly? Anyone who has been part of that journey knows how painful it really is. A lot of times the systems to fail at all levels, and you have to redesign it from the first principles.

Is GitHub scaling by orders of magnitude though? That would be an insane increase at this stage of their lifecycle.

Re: HashiCorp co-founder says GitHub 'no longer a place for serious work'

#70

Post by gwbas1c »

strictnein wrote: post #45
flossly wrote: post #3

Is it me, or did get issues get a lot worse with the transfer to MSFT?

The purchase wasn't a year ago, it was 8 years ago. In that time how much has it grown? 10x? 100x? More?

It's probably due to a more recent change, IE, focusing on features over stability. Or, it could be that there was some turnover in ops and someone who was a hawk about stability isn't there.

If I were to bet, there's probably a product manager or other leader who's just gung-ho on new features and loosing track of who their customers are and what their needs are.

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