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Internal FBI risk assessment of Bitcoin network [pdf]

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Re: Internal FBI risk assessment of Bitcoin network [pdf]

#82

Post by sturadnidge »

Nursie wrote: post #51
sturadnidge wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually the fixed supply is part of what does give it intrinsic value. Value is fundamentally anything that has utility _and_ scarcity. If the supply of BTC was infinite, it would have essentially no value (or at least it's value would diminish at such a rate that it would be useless for anything).

Value is just what people think something is worth, it's a shared illusion, not an intrinsic property of ... anything much. Having a static, fixed supply and independence from central control makes something valuable to you, not so much to me. >If the supply of BTC was infinite, it would have essentially no value But there are many other circumstances that could result in BTC having no value, regardless of scarcity.…

You misunderstand. Independence from central control has nothing to do with it.

I'm not defining value in the philosophical sense, which as you point out is entirely subjective, but you seem to be arguing against the generally accepted definition of value as applied to a system where something is exchanged in return for something else.

> But there are many other circumstances that could result in BTC having no value, regardless of scarcity. For instance if people stopped using it, at all. There would be no value in being the only one with bitcoin, regardless of how scarce they are.

Perhaps you need to re-read my comment. I never said scarcity alone was enough - if no one used it, it wouldn't have utility. You need both, hence my use of the word 'and'.

And thanks for the completely unnecessary downvote.

Re: Internal FBI risk assessment of Bitcoin network [pdf]

#84

Post by theorique »

Breakthrough wrote: post #56
JulianMorrison wrote: post #34

Given that Bitcoin records all transactions for posterity, and given the ongoing rise of "big data" analytics, I'd say Bitcoin is likely to be harder , in the long run, to use for shenanigans. A government currency has forms in which transactions create no paper trail. Bitcoin does not. Really the big disruption Bitcoin could cause if it becomes well established, is to act as a stable reference frame against which th…

Totally agreed, but I think it's worth pointing out that you could technically "own" the Bitcoin "printing press" if the $BTC distribution is skewed drastically to a particular majority (who could then corrupt the protocol/subsequent block chains). This is why initially, many people were told to use different mining pools or exchanges, as I recall there were a few majority cases a year or so ago (even Mt. Gox still h…

assuming that everyone plays fair, uses common sense

Big assumption.

Re: Internal FBI risk assessment of Bitcoin network [pdf]

#85

Post by TeMPOraL »

peteretep wrote: post #13
piokoch wrote: post #5

Nice document. It shows well the way of thinking of our governments. "detecting suspicious activity, identifying users, and obtaining transaction records is problematic for law enforcement." - That must deeply hurts FBI people :) "Despite the virtual nature of Bitcoin, users value the currency for many of the same reasons people trust Federal Reserve notes: they believe they can exchange the currency for goods, servi…

> People do not trust "Federal Reserve notes" Really? There I was thinking foreign governments liked holding their reserves in US dollars... > that at least some people realize that there is no such a thing like US dollar, only those "notes" printed by Ben Bernanke and his pals Wake up, SHEEPLE!

> Wake up, SHEEPLE!

Obligatory XKCD ref: http://xkcd.com/1013/.

Re: Internal FBI risk assessment of Bitcoin network [pdf]

#87

Post by theycallmemorty »

ninetax wrote: post #83

I would love to participate in this discussion, but I feel like I don't know enough about the economics of currency to make any real contribution. Does anyone know of some good resources (online courses, books, etc)?

I'm no expert either, but http://www.khanacademy.org/ has a lot of great videos on economics.

Re: Internal FBI risk assessment of Bitcoin network [pdf]

#88

Post by njharman »

piokoch wrote: post #5

Nice document. It shows well the way of thinking of our governments. "detecting suspicious activity, identifying users, and obtaining transaction records is problematic for law enforcement." - That must deeply hurts FBI people :) "Despite the virtual nature of Bitcoin, users value the currency for many of the same reasons people trust Federal Reserve notes: they believe they can exchange the currency for goods, servi…

> they are forced to use it, since they must pay taxes in it.

Last I checked, people use US Dollars for a fuck load more than paying taxes.

> How to tax the beast.

Cash is and was even more so in the past harder to track than bitcoin and yet somehow the "hooligans" managed to collect taxes.

Re: Internal FBI risk assessment of Bitcoin network [pdf]

#89

Post by ninetax »

theycallmemorty wrote: post #87
ninetax wrote: post #83

I would love to participate in this discussion, but I feel like I don't know enough about the economics of currency to make any real contribution. Does anyone know of some good resources (online courses, books, etc)?

I'm no expert either, but http://www.khanacademy.org/ has a lot of great videos on economics.

Thanks, I saw those but none seems specific enough. I've taken courses in macro and micro economics so I'm looking for something deeper, just on currency. I did also see khanacademy's lectures on currency relating to china, but it would be cool to find a reputable book.
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