It is an interesting screed. I was thinking when I wrote up the comment about how VP's might feel about leaving a position that there is an interesting dividing line which doesn't get talked about a lot, Matt touches on it but didn't really call it out, its this, "What are you trying to get done?" Early in my career Steve Bourne gave me useful advice, he said the difference between junior engineers and senior enginee…
Engineers suck at finding the right jobs
111–120 of 134 posts
Re: Engineers suck at finding the right jobs
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not quite as bad as finance where you're a VP like 5-6 years in.
Or "Partner" in law.
Re: Engineers suck at finding the right jobs
#113Re: Engineers suck at finding the right jobs
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Then start looking at companies that primarily produce hardware. I have in the past. The problem is that I have a BS in Computer Science and most hardware companies hire only Computer Engineers for low-level programming work (among other things).
> ... most hardware companies hire only Computer Engineers for low-level programming work (among other things). I have a computer engineering degree—I will cheerfully work with anybody who can get the job done. EE, CS, physics, you name it. My experience has been that low-level skills are only weakly correlated with degree. You want the person who was writing device drivers in high school.
Re: Engineers suck at finding the right jobs
#115It is an interesting screed. I was thinking when I wrote up the comment about how VP's might feel about leaving a position that there is an interesting dividing line which doesn't get talked about a lot, Matt touches on it but didn't really call it out, its this, "What are you trying to get done?" Early in my career Steve Bourne gave me useful advice, he said the difference between junior engineers and senior enginee…
The bimodal distribution of effort is really true, although people flip from one side to the other based on circumstances. Companies want people who (a) give a shit, but (b) are willing to subordinate their own career goals (including the long-term goal of becoming really good at engineering) to corporate objectives for a long (more than 3 months) period of time. The reality is that such people don't exist. People wh…
Re: Engineers suck at finding the right jobs
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
Also, if you go by the google ratings, which are similar, you get: Intern Software Engineer Senior Software Engineer Staff Engineer Senior Staff Engineer Principal Engineer Distinguished Engineer Fellow All of a sudden, "senior" doesn't feel very far up the totem pole.
Not quite as bad as finance where you're a VP like 5-6 years in.
It looks, as in the government, the VP is merely there if something happens to the President, instead of being an important position with a well defined set of tasks.
Director looks a better title
Re: Engineers suck at finding the right jobs
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
The issue of seniority always bugs me. If a 26 year old guy who writes "good enough" code can be a Senior, which I see very often, what's left? Some ideas, possibly an answer: http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2012/01/26/the-trajector... What companies tend to call "Senior" is usually around 1.4-1.6 in terms of responsibility. That said, most companies don't give you 1.4-level work until you're 1.7-1.8 in ability.…
Also, if you go by the google ratings, which are similar, you get: Intern Software Engineer Senior Software Engineer Staff Engineer Senior Staff Engineer Principal Engineer Distinguished Engineer Fellow All of a sudden, "senior" doesn't feel very far up the totem pole.
I heard one of my PMs say that "Senior SWE" at Google is roughly equivalent to "Director" at Oracle (which also suffers from massive title inflation). He was, I think, the youngest Director at Oracle before he came to Google (he got that title when he was 27).
Re: Engineers suck at finding the right jobs
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
If I ever develop an HR system/title hierarchy (and I don't see this as likely) titles will be more ornate at the bottom. At the top: Programmer.
I remember hearing that this is basically the way it works in management. The higher you go the more general your position becomes. CEO President Vice President of ___ Director of ____ _____ Coordinator of ____ and _____
Re: Engineers suck at finding the right jobs
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not quite as bad as finance where you're a VP like 5-6 years in.
Yeah, I never got the 'VP' title, it seems counter-intuitive. It looks, as in the government, the VP is merely there if something happens to the President, instead of being an important position with a well defined set of tasks. Director looks a better title
In banks, it's different. VP is a middling level and not necessarily managerial, while Managing Director is usually the highest.
I think the idea is that VP is equivalent to VP in a regular company, while MD is comparable to a C-level title, but because banks can't have as many C*O's as they have Managing Directors, they use a different title. Whether the rest of the world agrees with the banks on this title-equivalence is open for debate.
Re: Engineers suck at finding the right jobs
#120OP: what do you think of open allocation? http://www.quora.com/Software-Development-Methodologies/What... Personally, I think it's the only long-term solution to this bilateral matching problem: engineers can't find good work, employers can't find good engineers. The problem is that most software engineers are indeed unskilled (and therefore few companies are willing to start interesting projects that might make use…
I have mixed feelings about open allocation. I think it's very dependent on the context and the company's vision. @ChuckMcM wrote something very interesting explaining two types of engineers, some who are self driven and have an agenda and the ones who don't. I don't think that as engineers we are particularly good at understanding the business value we can bring to a company and how to improve a product. I think tha…
One of the misconceptions about open allocation is that it's a "free-for-all". It's not. It's more like an applied research environment where people are free agents to some degree, but still are expected to follow-- to contribute to something sanctioned-- if they aren't ready to lead yet. Open allocation companies still fire people, but it's very rare, because "intrinsic low performers" (as opposed to people who lose motivation due to dysfunctional environments) also turn out to be very rare.
Open allocation doesn't mean, "You show up and do whatever you want." It means, "We expect you to contribute to the business but it's your right to choose how you do so."
My problem with traditional management is that old-style managers aren't really the leaders that the workers themselves would select, but puppet leaders, chosen from above. Also, when companies give managers the right to unilaterally fire people, or to damage their transfer packets through a globally-visible performance review system, they allow managers to turn into extortionists who force people into subordinating to the manager's career goals rather than doing what's best for the employee or the company. Since middle managers also get a lot of pressure from above in these sorts of companies, that's usually exactly what they become, not because they want to be extortionists but because their feet are to the fire as well.
I think that "management" as a cultural institution is archaic. Leadership, communication, and mentorship skills will always be in high demand, but that's not what a manager is. A manager, from the term's roots, is someone hired by an owner of recourses (capital) to maximally exploit them. People often get angry with their bosses when the manager ignores their career goals, but they shouldn't, because that manager is just doing his job. He works for the company, not the employee.
Managed environments lead to localism, by which I mean the extreme trust (e.g. the right to unilaterally fire people) placed in managers allow an environment where the manager's stated goals (which are often neither aligned with the corporate objective or the employee's needs, but the manager's career objectives) take priority. You have lots of indirection and wasted effort and, usually, morale problems as a result.
Open allocation, on the other hand, trusts people to work directly for the company. There are still leaders and followers, but the employees are implicitly trusted in deciding whom to follow.