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Microsoft and OpenAI end their exclusive and revenue-sharing deal

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Re: Microsoft and OpenAI end their exclusive and revenue-sharing deal

#301
post #55
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, AGI is either here, or perpetually two years away, depending on your definition.

It's always been this way. I remember, speaking of Microsoft, when they came to my school around 2002 or so giving a talk on AI. They very confidently stated that AGI had already been "solved", we know exactly how to do it, only problem is the hardware. But they estimated that would come in about ten years...

Let me just repeat that: "Microsoft" came to your school in 2002 and "confidently stated" that AI had been solved. Really interesting story.

Re: Microsoft and OpenAI end their exclusive and revenue-sharing deal

#302
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I'm reading you right, your opinion is essentially: "If building bigger and bigger statistical next word predictors won't lead to artificial general intelligence, we will never see artificial general intelligence" I don't know, maybe AGI is possible but there's more to intelligence than statistical next word prediction?

Its not a statistical next word predictor. The 'predicting the next word' is the learning mechanism of the LLM which leads to a latent space which can encode higher level concepts. Basically a LLM 'understands' that much as efficient as it has to be to be able to respond in a reasonable way. A LLM doesn't predict german text or chinese language. It predicts the concept and than has a language layer outputting tokens.…

LLM proponents believe that these higher level encodings in latent space do in fact match the real world concepts described by our language(s).

However, a much simpler explanation for what we see with LLMs is that instead the higher level encodings in latent space match only the patterns of our language(s), and no deeper encoding/understanding is present.

It's Plato's Cave - the shadows on the wall are all an LLM ever sees, and somehow it is expected to derive the real reality behind them.

Re: Microsoft and OpenAI end their exclusive and revenue-sharing deal

#303

Opinions are my own. I think the biggest winner of this might be Google. Virtually all the frontier AI labs use TPU. The only one that doesn't use TPU is OpenAI due to the exclusive deal with Microsoft. Given the newly launched Gen 8 TPU this month, it's likely OpenAI will contemplate using TPU too.

And almost by happenstance Apple. Turns out they have a great platform for inference and torched almost nothing comparatively on Siri. The Apple/Gemini deal is interesting, Google continues to demonstrate their willingness to degrade their experience on Apple to try and force people to switch.

Apple is basically in the same boat as AMD and Intel. They have a weak, raster-focused GPU architecture that doesn't scale to 100B+ inference workloads and especially struggles with large context prefill. TPUs smoke them on inference, and Nvidia hardware is far-and-away more efficient for training.

Re: Microsoft and OpenAI end their exclusive and revenue-sharing deal

#304

Kagi Translate was kind enough to turn this from LinkedIn Speak to English: The Microsoft and OpenAI situation just got messy. We had to rewrite the contract because the old one wasn't working for anyone. Basically, we’re trying to make it look like we’re still friends while we both start seeing other people. Here is what’s actually happening: 1. Microsoft is still the main guy, but if they can't keep up with the tec…

This is somehow even less helpful than the og article.

Re: Microsoft and OpenAI end their exclusive and revenue-sharing deal

#305
post #291
post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why you think you know the human brain works through predicting the next token. It's not supernatural, I believe that an artificial intelligence is possible because I believe human intelligence is just a clever arrangement of matter performing computation, but I would never be presumptuous enough to claim to know exactly how that mechanism works. My opinion is that human intelligence might be what's esse…

> Your claim is that human intelligence is a next token predictor. Literally it is, at least in many of its forms. You accepted CamperBob2’s text as input and then you generated text as output. Unless you are positing that this behavior cannot prove your own general intelligence, it seems plain that “next token generator” is sufficient for AGI. (Whether the current LLM architecture is sufficient is a slightly differe…

Before I start typing, I think abstractly about the topic and decide on what I shall write in response. Due to the linear nature of time, typing necessarily happens one word at a time, but I am never producing a probability distribution of words (at least not in a way that my conscious self can determine), I consider an entire idea and then decide what tokens to enter into the computer in order to communicate the idea to you.

And while I am typing, and while I am thinking before I type, I experience an array of non-textual sensory input, and my whole experience of self is to a significant extent non-lingual. Sometimes, I experience an inner monologue, sometimes I think thoughts which aren't expressed in language such as the structure of the data flow in a computer program, sometimes I don't think and just experience feelings like a kiss or the sun on my skin or the euphoria of a piece of music which hits just right. These experiences shape who I am and how I think.

When I solve difficult programming problems or other difficult problems, I build abstract structures in my mind which represents the relevant information and consider things like how data flows, which parts impact which other parts, what the constraints are, etc. without language coming in to play at all. This process seems completely detached from words. In contrast, for a language model, there is no thinking outside of producing words.

It seems self-evident to me that at least parts of the human experience fundamentally can not be reduced to next token prediction. Further, it seems plausible to me that some of these aspects may be necessary for what we consider general intelligence.

Therefore, my position is: it is plausible that next token prediction won't give rise to general intelligence, and I do not find your argument convincing.

Re: Microsoft and OpenAI end their exclusive and revenue-sharing deal

#306
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> OpenAI is worth many multiples of that. How?

Because they recently issued shares at a price many multiples of that, and people bought them. How else would you define financial worth?

I would use your number adjusted by some demand elasticity curve.

Re: Microsoft and OpenAI end their exclusive and revenue-sharing deal

#307

It’s insane how they talk about AGI, like it was some scientifically qualifiable thing that is certain to happen any time now. When I have become the javelin Olympic Champion, I will buy a vegan ice cream to everyone with a HN account.

HN signup page about to get the hug of death

Re: Microsoft and OpenAI end their exclusive and revenue-sharing deal

#308

It’s insane how they talk about AGI, like it was some scientifically qualifiable thing that is certain to happen any time now. When I have become the javelin Olympic Champion, I will buy a vegan ice cream to everyone with a HN account.

I think we keep changing the goalposts on AGI. If you gave me CC in the 80's I would probably have called it 'alive' since it clearly passes the Turing test as I understood it then (I wouldn't have been able to distinguish it from a person for most conversations). Now every time it gets better we push that definition further and every crack we open to a chasm and declare that it isn't close. At the same time there ar…

I don't think so... I think most of the sci-fi I grew up reading presented AGI that could reason better than humans could, like make a plan and carry it out.

Like do people not know what word "general" means? It means not limited to any subset of capabilities -- so that means it can teach itself to do anything that can be learned. Like start a business. AI today can't really learn from its experiences at all.

Re: Microsoft and OpenAI end their exclusive and revenue-sharing deal

#309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except Gemini might end up being far cheaper per token due to the infrastructure advantage

Do we have proof that it's cheaper in terms of $/token/intelligence?

I think the public pricing usually has it cheaper (relatively). Obviously since AI is constantly evolving it's not going to compare as favourably farther to a major Gemini release

I was mainly referring to the TPU hardware advantage + GCP running and designing their own datacenter stack.

Re: Microsoft and OpenAI end their exclusive and revenue-sharing deal

#310
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's always been this way. I remember, speaking of Microsoft, when they came to my school around 2002 or so giving a talk on AI. They very confidently stated that AGI had already been "solved", we know exactly how to do it, only problem is the hardware. But they estimated that would come in about ten years...

Let me just repeat that: "Microsoft" came to your school in 2002 and "confidently stated" that AI had been solved. Really interesting story.

Yes, they did. We had guest speakers from Microsoft talking about AI. AI has been a decades-long grift, it's not something that just appeared out of thin air a few years ago.

What part do you find hard to believe? That tech companies would send people to speak at a university's computer science functions?

Let me give you another one you'll think I'm making up: virtual reality was a thing back in the mid- to late-90s and people were confidently hyping it up back then.

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