We’ve had eID for a long time and I’m fine with it becoming more prominent online. Same for age verification, once we settle on a way to do it without US/Palantir being involved in the process.
EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs
31–40 of 222 posts
Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
Whether there is a single app or not doesn't really matter - i'm more concerned about the database itself and the inter-connectivity between them and most importantly by which control acceptance protocol we abide between states. The idea that we want a single database or a network without any kind of control is frightening me
What do you mean by "control" here? It's my understanding that EU law afford citizens the right to correct data that is wrong about them.
I mean that there is a big difference between a state automatically providing your data to any other state while having "their database disconnected" - and a human operator in the loop and an administrative verification of the appropriate access ;
For example this would allow a state to refuse access to the PI of their citizens for cases that are not administratively documented. This forces the access audit sufficiently that a malign actor cannot simply request data for a citizen without having probable cause ; another vector we want to protect ourselves against is simply the psycho/sociopaths that have access to these data without surveillance.
Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs
#33With the way elections changed after social media became big. Govts want to have control back, like they did before. And are increasingly curbing open internet with boogeyman CP or terrorists, new fear of mass AI CP. Ultimately we'll get 2nd hand version of great firewall and social credit system. Some "liberal democracies" already have root of such systems implemented.
I think it has more to do with digital verification for social media in a hope of killing bot accounts that are interfering in the public debate. Some of the biggest social media influencer accounts turns out to be Chinese/Russian bots trying to fuel hate/division our democracies, and with LLMs it is only getting worse. Some form of digital ID to verify social media account identities is probably the only hope left of having a real public debate.
Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem is not about the data being correct or not, it's about its existence in the first place. Why would you correct data about you very own surveillance ?
Is all data about you "surveillance". When your doctor produces a medical record after your visit, are they "surveilling" you? How about when the railway company stores your travels to bill you later? I'll assume your answer is no, and I that case surely you must see the value in that medical record being correct.
Since you are bringing a semantic argument you might like to know that your doctor does in fact surveil you, hence the term "public health surveillance"
Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs
#35Digital ids are inevitable in my view, just as digital currency has become inescapable because it is more convenient and efficient, these ids will be issued and things like paper proofs of identity will fall away over time. Physical tokens like bank cards and driving licenses are neither necessary nor a good solution in a networked world. Our focus therefore should be controlling what governments can do with them - f…
I think even digital IDs will tend to exist as physical tokens? Also worth noting that you can have a digitized and cryptographically signed ID on "paper" which can serve much the same purpose (security, machine readability) as an electronic one. Where electronic tokens shine (for IDs or otherwise) is attesting to the physical possession of a single copy.
I don’t see why they would bother with physical tokens nor would they be popular - things like passports are really quite expensive to manage and largely unecessary these days. An app or identity on people’s phone might be a good stopgap.
However I suspect biometric methods of id verification will render carrying anything redundant long term.
The databases for digital id already exist, they’re just not fully utilised yet and these databases will always be centralised.
Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't know if it has anything to do with changes in elections directly. My government has been talking for a while making the case that social media use makes us dumber, sadder, and more scared. I believe it's true that they also see that playing out in elections, but that's not where they want to solve a problem. Wouldn't it be strange if solving a problem didn't affect elections?
> My government has been talking for a while making the case that social media use makes us dumber, sadder, and more scared. I believe it's true that they also see that playing out in elections, but that's not where they want to solve a problem. The governments themselves are "dumber, sadder, and more scared". They are worried because social media puts regular people talking on equal footing to official propagandas (…
I will agree that governments are happy to bend the knee to corporations. But corporations control social media, so why would the corporations themselves not further their agenda using the platforms they control? Be that simply letting chaos ensue (see the UK Southport riots that were sparked by a "news story" from Pakistan) or from tuning the algorithms directly.
People have control over their government, at least in democracies that are functioning to a basic level (see Hungary recently). But they have zero control over social media, in fact the only organisations that can control global billion dollar tech companies are nation state governments...
Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs
#37> There will be no single EU app, despite what the honchos of EU say.
This shows that the EU commission is systematically lying.
This problem used to exist in the past with Leyen - she is ultimately a lobbyist and that has to stop. Friedrich Merz too by the way - there is a reason why recent polls indicate that the german voters want him out of politics at once.
The EU needs to reform. Right now lobbyists have too much abuse-power. The age sniffing is a great example here - isn't it suspicious how this goes in sync right now in so many countries? Who is paying for this? Nobody needs that, except for some companies.
> Big platforms must verify age for certain content.
But why is their concern, suddenly my concern? I see no need to be in support of any law that would require people to ID in order to access information on the world wide web. That's very obviously the real goal and agenda - everyone with a bit of brains sees this.
> It is the same EU that hates these American corporations and wants EU alternatives for everything
That's not true. The EU commission I consider a lobbyist group, for instance. They lie and lie and lie.
The EU parliament is not much better - you can buy legislation quite easily: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar_corruption_scandal_at_th...
Nothing will seriously changed. The current way how the EU is structure is totally wrong; and it will not be fixed because those in the system, benefit from it financially. See the recent attempt to force EU taxpayers to pay more for those goons. They constantly try to inflate their own budget, at our cost.
> yet no one can make a phone usable for age verification without the blessing of Google
Indeed. We have total incompetence at the leadership level. It should be replaced with technical prowess, but as long as lobbyists such as Leyen are running the show, nothing will change. See the corruption scandals when she was still in Germany. Interestingly the AfD is also full of that, yet voters don't see it - Weidel was working for many years for Goldman sucks. So a next generation of lobbyists will replace the older generation soon. That's why this system how it is, is unfixable. It is broken by design.
Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
What do you mean by "control" here? It's my understanding that EU law afford citizens the right to correct data that is wrong about them.
The problem is not about the data being correct or not, it's about its existence in the first place. Why would you correct data about you very own surveillance ?
Governments need to identify citizens. They currently do this via paper records and extensive digital databases that those tie into. They will in future do this via digital records/tokens but this won’t change much.
Some amount of id verification and surveillance is of course required for a government to function, the question should be more what is allowed and what is not.
Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs
#39Digital ids are inevitable in my view, just as digital currency has become inescapable because it is more convenient and efficient, these ids will be issued and things like paper proofs of identity will fall away over time. Physical tokens like bank cards and driving licenses are neither necessary nor a good solution in a networked world. Our focus therefore should be controlling what governments can do with them - f…
Inevitable indeed. Rabbit hole ahead. UE has been for many years the way to prevent "controlling what governments can do with them".
https://escapekey.substack.com/p/europe-goes-full-digital
Re: EU Age Control: The trojan horse for digital IDs
#40Digital ids are inevitable in my view, just as digital currency has become inescapable because it is more convenient and efficient, these ids will be issued and things like paper proofs of identity will fall away over time. Physical tokens like bank cards and driving licenses are neither necessary nor a good solution in a networked world. Our focus therefore should be controlling what governments can do with them - f…
I don't see it as inevitable at any stage. Why would it be necessary? Why is access to information tied to a digital id suddenly? Also, where is digital currency inscapable? I can not pay with a bank note suddenly?
> Physical tokens like bank cards and driving licenses are neither necessary nor a good solution in a networked world.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with physical tokens. You could reason that this or that has more or fewer advantages but to insinuate that digital is always better, all of the time, is simply wrong.