Engineers suck at finding the right jobs • Hacker News Board

Re: Engineers suck at finding the right jobs

#61

Post by koide » Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 8:46 PM UTC

mattetti wrote: post #49

oinksoft wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may not specifically be the recruiter but it's no mystery that you guys have been aggressively hiring, and being over capacity is no doubt something somebody in your position would be acutely aware of. So pardon me for agreeing with parent that the post sounds like it was written by somebody having a hard time finding good candidates.

That's a fair assessment, however LivingSocial has its own recruiters and they are doing a great job. So far I got a few companies reaching out to me to let me know that they have some open positions and I know of many others in my network. I'll do my best to try to match people.

Do some of your contacts offer green cards or is this a geographically restricted offer?

Re: Engineers suck at finding the right jobs

#62

Post by michaelochurch » Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 8:58 PM UTC

fizx wrote: post #53

michaelochurch wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue of seniority always bugs me. If a 26 year old guy who writes "good enough" code can be a Senior, which I see very often, what's left? Some ideas, possibly an answer: http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2012/01/26/the-trajector... What companies tend to call "Senior" is usually around 1.4-1.6 in terms of responsibility. That said, most companies don't give you 1.4-level work until you're 1.7-1.8 in ability.…

Also, if you go by the google ratings, which are similar, you get: Intern Software Engineer Senior Software Engineer Staff Engineer Senior Staff Engineer Principal Engineer Distinguished Engineer Fellow All of a sudden, "senior" doesn't feel very far up the totem pole.

If I ever develop an HR system/title hierarchy (and I don't see this as likely) titles will be more ornate at the bottom. At the top: Programmer.

Re: Engineers suck at finding the right jobs

#63

Post by xxpor » Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 9:34 PM UTC

fizx wrote: post #53

michaelochurch wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue of seniority always bugs me. If a 26 year old guy who writes "good enough" code can be a Senior, which I see very often, what's left? Some ideas, possibly an answer: http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2012/01/26/the-trajector... What companies tend to call "Senior" is usually around 1.4-1.6 in terms of responsibility. That said, most companies don't give you 1.4-level work until you're 1.7-1.8 in ability.…

Also, if you go by the google ratings, which are similar, you get: Intern Software Engineer Senior Software Engineer Staff Engineer Senior Staff Engineer Principal Engineer Distinguished Engineer Fellow All of a sudden, "senior" doesn't feel very far up the totem pole.

Interesting, compare Amazon:

SDE intern SDE Sr. SDE Principal Engineer Sr. Pr. Eng. Distinguished Engineer (VP level, ex: Peter Vosshall)

Re: Engineers suck at finding the right jobs

#64

Post by hans » Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 9:40 PM UTC

Also when you get to early 40s doing web dev or web apps, especially if you dont have a GooG or stanford degree, your competition for work is essentially early 30 somethings, and age discrimination really becomes apparent. I have no idea what to do next for challenge and m0ney.

Re: Engineers suck at finding the right jobs

#65

Post by khetarpal » Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 9:43 PM UTC

gte910h wrote: post #57

khetarpal wrote: post #47

If engineers suck at finding the right job, and companies can't find the right people, then this problem is screaming for better solutions. The challenge here I see is that every employer is looking for 'rockstars', even if the actual job responsibilities may not require one. So, if I'm a 'rockstar', its a big hurdle to separate the reality from the marketing pitch of the magic job. What can be used as a signal for f…

>The challenge here I see is that every employer is looking for 'rockstars' I think there should be a developer tier at 250kish (valley prices) If you can justify that, we'll call you a rockstar. Then we'll give you status to go with it in the company (as you're making more than your boss), sort of how external consultants often get that and get to recommend TONS more stuff than line engineers do. If a position says…

I'm thinking about a way to call bullshit on such job descriptions. Not sure money is the answer though. What about interesting jobs / startups that can't pay that much?

It would be nice to get a crowd sourced mechanism that involves employees / ex-employees / vendors who could provide a well rounded view on what is the job really like, and not just some marketing spiel from hiring manager

Re: Engineers suck at finding the right jobs

#66

Post by nzmsv » Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 9:46 PM UTC

acuozzo wrote: post #36

johnnymonster wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to go to hardware companies to find these positions. Look at companies that support the internet, not the ones that use it. Such as DNS or OS level positions. The majority of resolvers still just run on plain old C and do it very well.

> Look at companies that support the internet, not the ones that use it. Excellent suggestion! Can you list some examples, please?

OpenDNS is one example: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1830929

Re: Engineers suck at finding the right jobs

#67

Post by fecak » Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 9:47 PM UTC

Recruiter of software engineers here, and liked the article. I can't begin to estimate what percentage of job changes are attributed to the work of recruiters (recruiting firms, not internal company recruiters), but I think that one reason engineers sometimes make poor career decisions is that they are being coached by recruiters to make them.

The technology industry has created a vibrant technical recruiting industry that feeds off of it, and it is often an unhealthy relationship. The recruiter (especially contingency recruiter) has a huge financial reward if he/she can convince the engineer to take the job, regardless of whether it is a good career move - the recruiter generally is paid as long as you stay 90 days. The size of the reward in addition to the competitive nature of the business creates some incentives that lead to trust and ethic issues. It is this problem that inspired my article http://jobtipsforgeeks.com/2012/09/17/disrupt/

If you are dealing with a recruiter that talks about the job he/she is trying to fill before asking you about what YOU are looking for in a job, you are probably not talking to someone that is trying to help you make a good career move.

Re: Engineers suck at finding the right jobs

#68

Post by pcestrada » Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 9:55 PM UTC

malandrew wrote: post #51

w1ntermute wrote: post #12

I thought the author sounded familiar. He's the person who gave this blatantly sexist and offensive presentation, CouchDB: Perform Like A Pr0n Star , at the Golden Gate Ruby Conference in 2009: http://ompldr.org/vZ2I1cA/gogaruco-couchdb-090418194027-phpa...

It really bothers me that this is a highly upvoted comment since it has absolutely nothing to do with the content of the post in question. I wouldn't be surprised if that presentation was posted on HN a while back. Search for it and go comment there.

A person's reputation is an important factor in evaluating what they say.

Re: Engineers suck at finding the right jobs

#69

Post by SatvikBeri » Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 10:03 PM UTC

michaelochurch wrote: post #62

fizx wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, if you go by the google ratings, which are similar, you get: Intern Software Engineer Senior Software Engineer Staff Engineer Senior Staff Engineer Principal Engineer Distinguished Engineer Fellow All of a sudden, "senior" doesn't feel very far up the totem pole.

If I ever develop an HR system/title hierarchy (and I don't see this as likely) titles will be more ornate at the bottom. At the top: Programmer.

Not to mention Coder and Bug Fixer.

Re: Engineers suck at finding the right jobs

#70

Post by rayiner » Thu, Nov 15, 2012, 10:05 PM UTC

fizx wrote: post #53

michaelochurch wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue of seniority always bugs me. If a 26 year old guy who writes "good enough" code can be a Senior, which I see very often, what's left? Some ideas, possibly an answer: http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2012/01/26/the-trajector... What companies tend to call "Senior" is usually around 1.4-1.6 in terms of responsibility. That said, most companies don't give you 1.4-level work until you're 1.7-1.8 in ability.…

Also, if you go by the google ratings, which are similar, you get: Intern Software Engineer Senior Software Engineer Staff Engineer Senior Staff Engineer Principal Engineer Distinguished Engineer Fellow All of a sudden, "senior" doesn't feel very far up the totem pole.

Not quite as bad as finance where you're a VP like 5-6 years in.