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New 10 GbE USB adapters are cooler, smaller, cheaper

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: New 10 GbE USB adapters are cooler, smaller, cheaper

#281
post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately "USB 3.2" is just a version of the standard, which does not give any information about the performance of a USB port or device. USB 5 Gb/s = USB 3.2 gen 1, available on Type A or Type C connectors (or on devices on a special extended micro B connector) USB 10 Gb/s = USB 3.2 gen 2, available on Type A or Type C connectors USB 20 Gb/s = USB 3.2 gen 2x2, available only on Type C connectors Moreover, "5 Gb/…

USB 3.2 used to be what we now call USB 3.2 gen 2x2, doesn't it? So it used to be that the version dictated the max speed: 3.0 was 4Gb/s, 3.1 was 10, and 3.2 20, right? But then they decided to memory hole that and now USB 3.0 and USB 3.1 are also USB 3.2 and USB 3.2 is called "generation 2x2", whatever that is supposed to mean It makes no sense anymore. It used to be quite simple.

No, they just renamed things when new standards were released (3.1 and 3.2). 20Gbps wasn't possible before 3.2, and it called Gen 2x2 at the time of release.

5 and 10 Gbps were renamed, though.

5 Gbps first was USB 3.0, then 3.1 Gen 1, then 3.2 Gen 1.

10 Gbps first was 3.1 Gen 2, then 3.2 Gen 2x1.

3.2 Gen 1x2 is also 10 Gbps, but physically different

Re: New 10 GbE USB adapters are cooler, smaller, cheaper

#282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, 10gb over copper is not power efficient so any savings you get from getting a cheap 10gb switch will just go to your power bill. Most cost effective and flexible is a used 25gb switch. Most 25gb switches can do 1/10/25gb. 10gb networking has been dead for over 10 years.

Interesting observation about power use. How close do you think we are to it being practical to wire your whole home with fiber instead of CAT6 or whatever? If you're providing all your own equipment, are willing to purchase a high-end splicer for maintenance, etc. For laptops I assume you need USB/Thunderbolt adapters. (Still no SFP+ or SFP28 module for Framework?) For desktops you'd use an SFP28 card (taking up a P…

You can just do a mix.

Most of my devices only need 1G or even 100Mbps. No reason to switch to fiber. 1G/2.5G copper ports don’t use that much power.

For 10G+ things, it’s fiber or DAC first if possible then RJ45 if it’s the only option.

Then my backhaul between rooms is just single mode fiber, good up to 800G. Plug in a small switch at the end and you go back to RJ45 and PoE.

I only have 10G though (to transfer large files/RAWs between my computer and my storage). Something faster would be nice because NVMe SSDs can go 50G+ but that equipment is pricey and power hungry.

Re: New 10 GbE USB adapters are cooler, smaller, cheaper

#283

I remember getting my first laptop with gigabit ethernet in 2005, more than 20 years ago! I'm surprised 10gbit is still so uncommon and eyewateringly expensive. And I don't just mean the adapters which are coming down in price finally but also the switches. For more than 10 years we've had semi managed gigabit switches for 25€ like the TP-SG108E. 10gbit is still crazy expensive. Even though it is quite needed these d…

How often do you have to do fast transfers from computer to computer?

Would argue for those purposes 40gig thunderbolt makes a lot more sense.

Re: New 10 GbE USB adapters are cooler, smaller, cheaper

#284
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, it's fine. The lack of clarity is in keeping with the USB C connector itself, which may supply or accept power at various rates or not at all, may be fast or slow, may provide or accept video or not, and may even provide an interpretation of PCI Express but probably doesn't. It probably looks the same no matter what, and the cable selected to use probably also won't be very forthcoming with its capabilities eithe…

… and a M1 MacBook will source 5V/3A all day long to a non-PD negotiated sink. Somewhere between the M1 and M3 Apple decided to buy into USB-IF compliance and limit to 500mA. Has lead to some very embarrassing “works on my computer” situations on prototype boards shared with my EE colleagues (I’m a software guy who dabbles in hardware when I need to)

It doesn't take PD negotiation to get 5v, 3A from a compliant source. A 5.1k resistor or two (quantity depends on placement in the overall circuit) is sufficient.

This may be a matter of semantics, but I can't bring myself to call a resistor a negotiator. They only do one thing and they're very resistant to other options. :)

With nothing connected to the CC line(s) at all, then there should be no output voltage on Vcc. It shouldn't be 5v @ 3a, or 500mA, or anything else -- it should be ~exactly 0v, and therefore also 0a.

A resistor or two tells the power source what we want. Without it (or some, you know, actual PD negotiations), we get nothing.

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A careful reader will note the repeated quantity distinction. Let me explain that.

Every USB C socket has both CC1 and CC2 pins. They're on opposite side of the connector and get used for sorting out PD, and for detecting the cable's connector orientation (if/when that matters).

But a cromulent USB C to USB C cable can have just 1 CC wire, and that's OK. It works; it isn't even wrong. To get such a cable to coax 5v from a 5v/3a source and get power for a prototype widget on Gilligan's Island, with the cable already cut in half to get at the wires inside: Wire up power and ground to your prototype. And put a 5.1k resistor between that single CC wire and ground. Voila: We've requested 5v at up to 3a.

Or: If we're being a bit more proper and snooty and want to do it The Right Way, and we actually have a USB C jack to prototype with, then that more-ideally takes two 5.1k resistors; one to pull CC1 to ground, and another to pull CC2 to ground. This does the same thing, but it does it on the connector side of things instead of the daunting no-mans-land of wires. Only one of these resistors will ever be used at one time.

Or: If we have a USB C jack and can only scrounge up one 5.1k resistor (maybe we only have a single #2 pencil to whittle down to 5.1k of resistance), or we're being particularly lazy, then that's OK too. Pick CC1 or CC2 and put 5.1k between there and ground. It will work with the cable plugged in one way, and it won't work with the cable flipped 180 degrees. That can be enough to get a thing done for the moment or whatever. (There's no solution that is as permanent as a temporary one.)

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These are some of the things I learned when I was in the field and needed a 5v, >2.5a power supply to replace one that had died. I said to myself, "Self, just go over to Wal-Mart and get a 3a USB C power brick that comes with a cable, cut and splice that cable to fit the widget that needs power, and call it done. If it dies in the future, replacing it will be intuitive and fast."

So dumb ol' me went to Wal-Mart and bought exactly that, and I quite confidently set forth with the splicing.

This did not work. At all.

And that was a harsh rabbit hole to dive into, but it was ultimately fine. After I got back that evening I soldered a 5.1k resistor (of 1206 SMD form) mid-span between the CC wire and ground, and finished the adapter-cable quite neatly with some adhesive-lined shrink tubing.

Doing it this way got the customer's gear working faster than ordering the "right" parts and waiting for them show up would have, and it still works. That's all been a few years ago now; I consider it to be as permanent as anything ever really is.

Re: New 10 GbE USB adapters are cooler, smaller, cheaper

#285
post #53

All these USB version names. I used to know what they all meant, but then the USB IF went ahead and renamed them all and made a bunch of versions have the same name and renamed some versions to have the same name as the old name of other versions. I have absolutely no idea what anyone means when they say USB 3.2 gen 2x2. I used to know what USB 3.2 meant but it's certainly not that.

In my experience, its just best to stick with Thunderbolt when you want to make sure you are getting the best speed for external devices that require it (external SSD's, Graphics Cards, Network adapters)

Much easier and reliable than navigating the confusing sea of USB standards

Re: New 10 GbE USB adapters are cooler, smaller, cheaper

#286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 10GbE Thunderbolt adapter is still the best. Full symmetrical 10GbE on laptops as far back as the 2018 MacBook Pro 13" (Intel) and every laptop since. Including the Airs starting with the M1 chip (Not sure about Neo). The neo doesn't have thunderbolt at all so no, that won't fly.

Luckily I suspect the intersect on the Venn diagram isn’t huge for Neo buyers, and those wanting / needing 10gigE

Yup.

Re: New 10 GbE USB adapters are cooler, smaller, cheaper

#287
post #159

Just got an rtl8127 pci e card to replace my aqc113. Runs cool, doesn't have as much contention on the chipset. Price was right. Good purchase and that $10 chip will allow cheaper more power efficient home 10gb equipment within the coming years.

Was the card $10 or are you saying that the chip is a $10 part?

Re: New 10 GbE USB adapters are cooler, smaller, cheaper

#290

A Framework expansion card was also announced this week. https://frame.work/nl/en/products/wisdpi-10g-ethernet-expans...

The author only got 7Gbps with a Framework 13 and a 10G adapter from the same brand (WisdPi).

If this is the same adapter in a different housing, will it also be limited to 7Gbps?

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