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Engineers suck at finding the right jobs

matt.aimonetti.net

11–20 of 134 posts

Re: Engineers suck at finding the right jobs

#11
There are fundamental issues here.

For a sales guy, you can say he brought in $X in revenue that led to $Y in profits, so the value he creates is visible. It's a lot more complex than that, but at least there is a theoretical basis to value his work.

I spent five years working on a non-profit web site that was used by more than 80k people a day. We estimated the site produced $250M a year in value for end users. We also had no real plan for capturing that value or funding it so there wasn't a pie I could claim a piece of at all, just what they said they could pay me.

I've worked at a number of places where the model was spend $X to develop something with Y developers over Z months and maybe we can sell it. These often are fun jobs. This includes a lot of Y Combinator kind of companies but also stodgy companies you'll find in midwestern towns.

I think the median project of this type either (i) doesn't ship a product in the end or (ii) gets revenue that is a small fraction of $X. Again, there's no pie to split.

This of course begs the question. Does working on a project like Colors make you a negative net productivity programmer whatever you do?

I guess in theory a place like this could pay you heavily in equity or bonuses, but with the odds of getting no payout that's really not fair if you have to develop your skills, be highly responsible in so many ways and maybe even support a family.

The companies where the revenue is more obvious are job shops, but these tend to be horrible places to work. Of 5 that I had some involvement with, 4 of them were outright failing businesses because the business plan made no sense or they spent 12 years building web sites with an obscure language that is now eol. The last one is profitable and growing but they had no benefits, low base pay, but they might pay a bonus into your 401k at the end of the year based on "the value of your contributions to the company." Well, the principles of the company never got tried of yakking about the high value of the sales work they do so you know who is #1 and #2 when bonus time comes around at the end of the year.

So in all my years as a pro programmer, I can say I only worked for three months at a place where my work had a clear connection to revenue it was creating and compensation wise it was the worst job I've ever had.

Re: Engineers suck at finding the right jobs

#13

The issue of seniority always bugs me. If a 26 year old guy who writes "good enough" code can be a Senior, which I see very often, what's left? Personally I wouldn't feel right with a title including "senior" until I've got at least 10y experience, generated millions in revenue and lead a team of >10. And I'd still prefer not having a title. Unless the only way to increase a salary is by taking the title, which seems…

On the other hand how I can differentiate myself without using "senior" from others developers of my age, who took this job as a result of additional course during their college time and who as result produce quite ad-hoc code without any interest in technology and what lies below job they do?

That's the only reason I am using senior in title. Because I do not agree that all 20-something devs bring same value to the team.

Re: Engineers suck at finding the right jobs

#14

The issue of seniority always bugs me. If a 26 year old guy who writes "good enough" code can be a Senior, which I see very often, what's left? Personally I wouldn't feel right with a title including "senior" until I've got at least 10y experience, generated millions in revenue and lead a team of >10. And I'd still prefer not having a title. Unless the only way to increase a salary is by taking the title, which seems…

Titles were more about pay bands then skill.

I know several hundred Vice Presidents at JP Morgan Chase.

And really, if your business card tells me that you're a Programmer/Analyst 3, then you're either doing something wrong, or you're a robot, and you probably work between Programmer/Analysts 2 and 4.

Re: Engineers suck at finding the right jobs

#15
It really is an exciting time for software engineers. I'm a soon-to-graduate student and have gotten so many job offers that I had to pretty much stop talking about it with friends/family. Does anyone else feel awkward admitting how easy we have it in tech right now when there are so many people struggling to find jobs?

Re: Engineers suck at finding the right jobs

#16

I thought the author sounded familiar. He's the person who gave this blatantly sexist and offensive presentation, CouchDB: Perform Like A Pr0n Star , at the Golden Gate Ruby Conference in 2009: http://ompldr.org/vZ2I1cA/gogaruco-couchdb-090418194027-phpa...

Matt's a fairly prominent member of the Ruby community. I've seen him at conferences with his little boy, and chatted with him myself. This doesn't mean that presentation wasn't sexist (I was there, I was horrified), but he's not a sexist monster without regard for ethical behavior.

He's a pretty decent guy for the most part, and I believe him when he says he wants to help.

Re: Engineers suck at finding the right jobs

#17
I appreciated this post, and it's good timing considering I've felt lost in my career for at least a year. I switched jobs 6 months ago, and am already considering changing again. I've had several interviews, and in spite of the fact that everyone I work with tell me what an asset I am and how talented I am, I can't seem to find a good fit.

I'm a .NET developer, and am considering changing to Rails, just to see if that opens up better/different opportunities. But that's a big time investment for me -- having a family leaves me with little time as it is -- and I'm not even sure that will leave me much better off than I am now.

I really could use some direction, but have not been able to nail down a way to find direction. Matt, I may take you up on your offer.

I would also welcome and general thoughts from the HN community.

Re: Engineers suck at finding the right jobs

#18
post #8

> Now is an awesome time to be a software engineer (probably best time ever). I don't agree with this statement at all, as it's getting harder and harder to find low-level work (e.g., C and *asm) and that's the __only__ kind of programming that I enjoy doing. I'll start looking for another career when I have to consider putting words like ``full-stack'' or ``cloud'' on my resume in order to find work.

Then start looking at companies that primarily produce hardware. Trust me, it's getting harder and harder to find people who even know what a pointer is. To the point where we simply assume the people we hire won't and we'll just have to abstract it away for them.

Re: Engineers suck at finding the right jobs

#19
post #15

It really is an exciting time for software engineers. I'm a soon-to-graduate student and have gotten so many job offers that I had to pretty much stop talking about it with friends/family. Does anyone else feel awkward admitting how easy we have it in tech right now when there are so many people struggling to find jobs?

As a soon-to-graduate student as well, I am having the same issue. It is a blessing but also a curse, having to figure out what direction to take from so many options.

Re: Engineers suck at finding the right jobs

#20

I appreciated this post, and it's good timing considering I've felt lost in my career for at least a year. I switched jobs 6 months ago, and am already considering changing again. I've had several interviews, and in spite of the fact that everyone I work with tell me what an asset I am and how talented I am, I can't seem to find a good fit. I'm a .NET developer, and am considering changing to Rails, just to see if th…

Jader - don't want to spam this discussion, but many of our students at railstutors.com have the exact background as you. If you have 10-15hrs/week for a month, we can get you to a proficient level with Rails.
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