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Iliad fragment found in Roman-era mummy

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Re: Iliad fragment found in Roman-era mummy

#31

Post by card_zero »

AlexeyBrin wrote: post #16
horsh1 wrote: post #10

So why would they bury a man with a book?

Many cultures bury their dead with objects that the person enjoyed during their lifetime. This is present even today, I saw a burial in Eastern Europe where the parents put a game of chess and toys in the coffin. While it will do no good to the deceased my theory is that it is a way for the living to deal with the loss.

I wonder now and then about the extent of dissent and cynicism in ancient Egypt. This is a vague question, I know, not least because the scope covers thousands of years. But officially, everybody gets grave goods in proportion to their status, especially their closeness to royalty, and these are provided so that they can have chairs and games and sports and clothes and food and so on in the next world, to make approximately four out of their eight forms of soul feel comfortable. Then these grave goods are often immediately stolen, probably by the same priestly officials who organized the burial. I wonder if ancient Egyptians silently thought their own religion ridiculous.

Re: Iliad fragment found in Roman-era mummy

#33

Post by canjobear »

jrumbut wrote: post #18
jmyeet wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a common refrain but in reality I'm not sure it made much difference. Papyrus just doesn't age well and most manuscripts from this era would've been on papyrus. What really decided what texts survived and what didn't was monastic traditions in in the Dark Ages and Middle Ages [1]. At this time, a monk might spend their entire life transcribing a particularly long manuscript. The materials were also expensive.…

It was a little before that even. Greek was the language of most fields of learning besides law in the Roman Empire. But the Greeks themselves wrote works on these papyrus scrolls that crumbled fast, so anything not actively used by the Romans was quickly lost. There's a good chance that if the papyrus scrolls in any library (Alexandria or otherwise) weren't being copied regularly they were crumbling even before they…

What’s the evidence Boethius wasn’t Christian? Wikipedia says he was.

Re: Iliad fragment found in Roman-era mummy

#34

Post by wavefunction »

anon291 wrote: post #22
staplung wrote: post #14

Sadly, the article says nothing about how old the fragment is or how it compares to other early copies of the Iliad. Somewhat amazingly, the earliest complete copy of the Iliad is from around 950 C.E. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venetus_A

It's not that surprising. The earliest complete copies of many ancient texts is similarly dated. For example, the earliest copy of the Rg Veda is dated to about that age as well. It's hard to keep complete copies of big books.

As well, both the Iliad and Vedas are originally oral traditions. Likely there were different versions and different parts of the stories were emphasized to appeal to their audiences and local tastes and current events. Something that can still be apparent in historical texts but probably greatly reduced by the function of printed versions presenting a singular "authoritative version."

Re: Iliad fragment found in Roman-era mummy

#35

Post by zozbot234 »

AlexeyBrin wrote: post #16
horsh1 wrote: post #10

So why would they bury a man with a book?

Many cultures bury their dead with objects that the person enjoyed during their lifetime. This is present even today, I saw a burial in Eastern Europe where the parents put a game of chess and toys in the coffin. While it will do no good to the deceased my theory is that it is a way for the living to deal with the loss.

> This is present even today, I saw a burial in Eastern Europe where the parents put a game of chess and toys in the coffin. While it will do no good to the deceased my theory is that it is a way for the living to deal with the loss.

Spoiler: they do that so that future grave robbers and archaeologists will know all about the dead person's lifestyle. Surely that kind of everlasting glory has to be worth something to the deceased, one would think?

Re: Iliad fragment found in Roman-era mummy

#36

Post by wavefunction »

notorandit wrote: post #3

I Hope more and more fragments of anything lost is found. The burn down of Alexandria library was a pity

It probably held a bunch of relatively boring local administrative records as far as "documents found only in the Library of Alexandria" from what I've read. Of course some scholars of the boring administrative history of the world would be thrilled though.

Re: Iliad fragment found in Roman-era mummy

#37

Post by wavefunction »

mistrial9 wrote: post #29
ButlerianJihad wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some reason, there is a gigantic and ancient monastery on Mount Sinai with a commensurate collection of ancient manuscripts and papyri. Totally coincidence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Catherine%27s_Monastery#... How did all that stuff get up there? It was holy angels. #itsalwaysangels

those are certainly Christian curated documents. The previous six hundred+ years had seen the development of vivid and exotic religion, philosophy and arts. The Christians famously slew the Dragons, condemned Herod as a sorcerer and astrologer, and replaced the Apollo cults with the scripture that many know well. I imagine that the Library of Alexandria was plural and diverse with respect to the traditions and inquir…

The early Egyptian Christians were a particularly violent bunch. Lots of murders and political scheming against each other and other Christian authorities in the larger world of the Late Antique. They came to power in Alexandria by murder and looting, specifically

Re: Iliad fragment found in Roman-era mummy

#38

Post by krapp »

wavefunction wrote: post #36
notorandit wrote: post #3

I Hope more and more fragments of anything lost is found. The burn down of Alexandria library was a pity

It probably held a bunch of relatively boring local administrative records as far as "documents found only in the Library of Alexandria" from what I've read. Of course some scholars of the boring administrative history of the world would be thrilled though.

As far as I know the vast majority of cuneiform we have is essentially administrative records, tax record and receipts. And homework.

That's the stuff that tells us how societies and cultures really worked.

Re: Iliad fragment found in Roman-era mummy

#40

Post by lukan »

card_zero wrote: post #31
AlexeyBrin wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many cultures bury their dead with objects that the person enjoyed during their lifetime. This is present even today, I saw a burial in Eastern Europe where the parents put a game of chess and toys in the coffin. While it will do no good to the deceased my theory is that it is a way for the living to deal with the loss.

I wonder now and then about the extent of dissent and cynicism in ancient Egypt. This is a vague question, I know, not least because the scope covers thousands of years. But officially, everybody gets grave goods in proportion to their status, especially their closeness to royalty, and these are provided so that they can have chairs and games and sports and clothes and food and so on in the next world, to make approx…

"I wonder if ancient Egyptians silently thought their own religion ridiculous."

The more who believed that, the less power their religion had at holding the empire together until it transcended into becoming a vassal and later out of existing. Religion was the foundation of the empire, but judging from the many artifacts we have, at least some did take it very seriously.

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