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There Will Be a Scientific Theory of Deep Learning

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41–50 of 179 posts

Re: There Will Be a Scientific Theory of Deep Learning

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the concept of a transformer could have been used on much slower hardware much earlier. It could have been done in the early 1970s -- see "Paper tape is all you need" at https://github.com/dbrll/ATTN-11 and the various C-64 projects that have been posted on HN -- but the problem was that Marvin Minsky "proved" that there was no way a perceptron-based network could do anything interesting. Funding dried up in a hurry…

> Marvin Minsky "proved" that there was no way a perceptron-based network could do anything interesting What result are you referring to?

Haven't read the page but a promising-looking search result is here: https://seantrott.substack.com/p/perceptrons-xor-and-the-fir...

I'm sure it's an oversimplification to blame the entire 1970s AI winter on Minsky, considering they couldn't have gotten much further than the proof-of-concept stage due to lack of hardware. But his voice was a loud, widely-respected one in academia, and it did have a negative effect on the field.

Re: There Will Be a Scientific Theory of Deep Learning

#42
This is encouraging. The title is a bit much. "Potential points of attack for understanding what deep learning is really doing" would be more accurate but less attention-grabbing.

It might lead to understanding how to measure when a deep learning system is making stuff up or hallucinating. That would have a huge payoff. Until we get that, deep learning systems are limited to tasks where the consequences of outputting bullshit are low.

Re: There Will Be a Scientific Theory of Deep Learning

#43
post #14

Here's where I'm missing understanding: for decades the idea of neural networks had existed with minimal attention. Then in 2017 Attention Is All You Need gets released and since then there is an exponential explosion in deep learning. I understand that deep learning is accelerated by GPUs but the concept of a transformer could have been used on much slower hardware much earlier.

The inflection point was 2012, when AlexNet [0], a deep convolutional neural net, achieved a step-change improvement in the ImageNet classification competition. After seeing AlexNet’s results, all of the major ML imaging labs switched to deep CNNs, and other approaches almost completely disappeared from SOTA imaging competitions. Over the next few years, deep neural networks took over in other ML domains as well. The…

Ive yet to see a model that trains AND applies the trained data real-time. Thats basically every living being, from bacteria to plants to mammals.

Even PID loops have a training phase separate from recitation phase.

Re: There Will Be a Scientific Theory of Deep Learning

#44
post #14

Here's where I'm missing understanding: for decades the idea of neural networks had existed with minimal attention. Then in 2017 Attention Is All You Need gets released and since then there is an exponential explosion in deep learning. I understand that deep learning is accelerated by GPUs but the concept of a transformer could have been used on much slower hardware much earlier.

The inflection point was 2012, when AlexNet [0], a deep convolutional neural net, achieved a step-change improvement in the ImageNet classification competition. After seeing AlexNet’s results, all of the major ML imaging labs switched to deep CNNs, and other approaches almost completely disappeared from SOTA imaging competitions. Over the next few years, deep neural networks took over in other ML domains as well. The…

> Intelligence, even of a limited sort, seems to emerge only after crossing a high threshold of compute capacity. Probably this has to do with the need for a lot of parameters to deal with the intrinsic complexity of a complex learning environment.

Real intelligence deals with information over a ludicrous number of size scales. Simple models effectively blur over these scales and fail to pull them apart. However, extra compute is not enough to do this effectively, as nonparametric models have demonstrated.

The key is injecting a sensible inductive bias into the model. Nonparametric models require this to be done explicitly, but this is almost impossible unless you're God. A better way is to express the bias as a "post-hoc query" in terms of the trained model and its interaction with the data. The only way to train such a model is iteratively, as it needs to update its bias retroactively. This can only be accomplished by a nonlinear (in parameters) parametric model that is dense in function space and possesses parameter counts proportional to the data size. Every model we know of that does this is called "a neural network".

Re: There Will Be a Scientific Theory of Deep Learning

#45
post #42

This is encouraging. The title is a bit much. "Potential points of attack for understanding what deep learning is really doing" would be more accurate but less attention-grabbing. It might lead to understanding how to measure when a deep learning system is making stuff up or hallucinating. That would have a huge payoff. Until we get that, deep learning systems are limited to tasks where the consequences of outputting…

> measure when a deep learning system is making stuff up or hallucinating

That's a great problem to solve! (Maybe biased, because this is my primary research direction). One popular approach is OOD detection, but this always seemed ill-posed to me. My colleagues and I have been approaching this from a more fundamental direction using measures of model misspecification, but this is admittedly niche because it is very computationally expensive. Could still be a while before a breakthrough comes from any direction.

Re: There Will Be a Scientific Theory of Deep Learning

#46
post #28

Well, "There Will Be a Scientific Theory of Deep Learning" looks like flag planting - an academic variant of "I told you so!", but one that is a citation magnet.

It's actually really fascinating that there isn't a scientific theory of deep learning, especially as it's a product of human engineering as opposed to e.g. biology or particle physics.

There are very good reasons why it took this long, but can be summed up as: everyone was looking in the wrong place. Deep learning breaks a hundred years of statistical intuition, and you don't move a ship that large quickly.

Re: There Will Be a Scientific Theory of Deep Learning

#48
post #28

Well, "There Will Be a Scientific Theory of Deep Learning" looks like flag planting - an academic variant of "I told you so!", but one that is a citation magnet.

It's actually really fascinating that there isn't a scientific theory of deep learning, especially as it's a product of human engineering as opposed to e.g. biology or particle physics.

There is, but it is fractured. I would equate this effort as more of a standardization of terms and language.

Re: There Will Be a Scientific Theory of Deep Learning

#49
I’m in the skeptical camp. Whatever theory that will eventually emerge will not be as solid as: 1. Theory of pattern recognition (as developed in 80s and 90s) 2. Theory of thermodynamics 3. Theory of gravity 4. Theory of electromagnetism 5. Theory of relativity Etc. because of two reasons: 1. While half of deep learning is how humans construct the architecture of networks, the more important half relies on data. This data is a hodgepodge of scraped internet data (text and videos), books, user interactions etc., which really has no coherent structure 2. To extract meaningful insights from this much data, it takes models of enormous size like 10B+. The thing about random systems (in the mathematical sense) is that it takes “something” of order of magnitude bigger size to “understand” it, unless there is some concentration of measure type mathematical niceties (as in thermodynamics), which I don’t think is there in these models and data. This is the same reason I don’t think humans will ever be able to “understand” human consciousness. It will take something of an order of magnitude bigger than our own brains to do that. Here is Terence Tao explaining this concentration stuff in another context: https://mathstodon.xyz/@tao/113873092369347147 I would love to be proven wrong though.

Re: There Will Be a Scientific Theory of Deep Learning

#50

Here's where I'm missing understanding: for decades the idea of neural networks had existed with minimal attention. Then in 2017 Attention Is All You Need gets released and since then there is an exponential explosion in deep learning. I understand that deep learning is accelerated by GPUs but the concept of a transformer could have been used on much slower hardware much earlier.

Without fast parallel hardware there would neither have been the incentive to design the Transformer, or much benefit even if someone had come up with the design all the same!

The incentive to design something new - which became the Transformer - came from language model researchers who had been working with recurrent models such as LSTMs, whose recurrent nature made them inefficient to train (needing BPPT), and wanted to come up with a new seq-2-seq/language model that could take advantage of the parallel hardware that now existed and (since AlexNet) was now being used to good effect for other types of model.

As I understand it, the inspiration for the concept of what would become the Transformer came from Attention paper co-author Jakob Uzkoreit who realized that language, while superficially appearing sequential (hence a good match for RNNs) was in fact really parallel + hierarchical as can be seen by linguist's sentence parse trees where different branches of the tree reflect parallel analysis of different parts of the sentence, which are then combined at higher levels of the hierarchical parse tree. This insight gave rise to the idea of a language model that mirrored this analytical structure with hierarchical layers of parallel processing, with the parallel processing being the whole point since this could be accelerated by GPUs. While the concept was Uzkoreit's, it took another researcher, Noam Shazeer, to take the concept and realize it as a performant architecture - the Transformer.

Without the fast parallel hardware already pre-existing, there would not have been any incentive to design a new type of language model to take advantage of it!

The other point is that while the Transformer is a very powerful general purpose and scalable type of model, it only really comes into it's own at scale. If a Transformer had somehow been designed in the pre-GPU-compute era, before the compute power to scale it up to massive size existed it, then it would likely not have appeared so promising/interesting.

The other aspect to the history is that neural networks, of various types, have evolved in complexity and sophistication over time. RNNs and LSTMs came first, then Bahdanau attention as a way to improve their context focus and performance. Attention was now seen to be a valuable part of language and seq-2-seq modelling, so when GPUs motivated the Transformer, attention was retained, recurrence ditched, and hence "Attention is all you need".

The time was right for the Transformer to appear when it did, designed to take advantage of recent GPU advances, building on top of this new attention architecture, and now with the compute power and dataset size available that it started to really shine when scaled from GPT-1 to GPT-2 size, and beyond.

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