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How to be anti-social – a guide to incoherent and isolating social experiences

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Re: How to be anti-social – a guide to incoherent and isolating social experiences

#171

Post by chasd00 »

slowmover wrote: post #154

"dig in your heels when confronted with overwhelming dissent" Sorry, sticking to this one. Call me anti-social if you want, but facing overwhelming dissent may indicate you're the lone free-thinker in an echo chamber. Being that one guy who's always prodding the hivemind with a pokey stick has value in my opinion (though you will end up getting stung on occasion).

> facing overwhelming dissent may indicate you're the lone free-thinker

You just better be right. If you're wrong then no one will ask for your input ever again.

Re: How to be anti-social – a guide to incoherent and isolating social experiences

#172

Post by reedf1 »

ge96 wrote: post #123

I'm bad at this, not that I want to be. Well I'm bad at it with women. I go to these workplace happy hours and I just sit there in silence. Hard to relate to people talking about the house they own or kids since I don't have either. I know to be a good conversationalist you just gotta ask them questions. It's not good to be alone, I was in a car crash one time and my buddies pulled up on the scene and gave me a ride…

hey not to give unsolicited advice but to share my experience - it took me a long time to realize that I'm not anti-social, but just anti-party and anti-work social. I flourish in most other spaces - especially hobby spaces.

Re: How to be anti-social – a guide to incoherent and isolating social experiences

#173

Post by gensym »

0xmattf wrote: post #82
foo12bar wrote: post #33

How about the old fashioned freezing with a face contorted in fear like your being held at knife point unable to think of anything to say and just waiting to be able to leave? When you get asked a question, fumble over your words and say something stupid. Later on, you can reflexively watch the memory played over and over again so you're even worse the next time. If you see anyone you met during the encounter afterwa…

You reminded me of one of the first interviews I ever had in tech. I took 2 phone screens, and a take home assignment. Last step: Zoom interview with some of the IT team (3 people). It started well, but I slowly started panicking. All three of them were shooting questions at me, which I answered them all correctly, as far as I know, but I was so... cold. Started stammering my words and speaking like a terrified child…

Honestly, it sounds to me like the CTO, not you, is the one who should be embarrassed by memories of that experience. Unless being a polished speaker under high pressure situations was a requirement for the job, the CTO, as leader, should have had the skill to make you more comfortable expressing your knowledge and skills.

I have memories of experiences freezing up and losing the physical control required to speak as well, so I have empathy.

(Having such experiences as a child are what led to me joining the high school speech team doing extemporaneous and impromptu events to get over them. I eventually went on to be a regional champion and a state competitor, but I still sometimes have to fight the physical tension when speaking in certain situations).

Re: How to be anti-social – a guide to incoherent and isolating social experiences

#174

Post by palmotea »

analog8374 wrote: post #132
doginasuit wrote: post #65

I think the most valuable thing here is to not jump to a negative assumption about people, something I wish it followed more closely in its other points. Virtually anyone who has a very different perspective than the group will face friction, and handling that friction gracefully isn't something that comes naturally to most people. People can get stuck in a pattern of handling the friction poorly, but the group as a…

Unless your primary concern is "winning". Then step one is to cast the other fellow as the enemy, and then you create a case against him, leading the conversation in the appropriate direction. It's a popular way to do it. See all of social media for examples.

> Unless your primary concern is "winning".

That's something the OP could add to his guide: approach every interaction as a contest you must win.

Re: How to be anti-social – a guide to incoherent and isolating social experiences

#175

Post by hoppp »

justonceokay wrote: post #46
hoppp wrote: post #24

I am autistic and asocial fits more than anti-social because I am not actually doing any "anti" behavior, just trying to avoid the beurocratic small talk and general conformist interactions

I.e. the things that make people become friends and feel safe around each other. As a fellow autistic person we should not be avoiding small talk, we should be learning how to better connect with those around us since we need more time and work to do so. It’s easy to use a diagnosis as an excuse not to connect. But it’s a lame excuse. It is much more interesting to understand what tools we need to gain to connect wit…

I am semi-verbal.

I can't talk most of the time, that does stop me from having a conversation yes.

Processing Sensory information takes priority over social circuits in my brain, physically.

So I am unapologetically autistic and no I don't have to break my brain to try to fit in.

If people find my disabilities upsetting thats stereotype ableism and yes it happens often

Re: How to be anti-social – a guide to incoherent and isolating social experiences

#176

Post by mhurron »

legacynl wrote: post #159
svnt wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your response assumes a lot about the homogeneity of subjective human experience that the data don’t seem to support. There is a diversity of physical attractiveness, innate and learned social grace, social environment, and phenotypic variability in psychosocial capacity that makes your comment sound extremely out of touch to some people. I can do what you describe because I am fortunate that many of my social intera…

The point is that a fully grown person (i.e. adult) should be able to regulate their emotions to the point of being able to have a conversation with 3 strangers. You might not like it, it might stress you out a bunch, you can cry afterwards, or have a stiff drink after, but you should be able to set those emotions aside for 30 minutes, especially for something important like a job interview. If someone cannot do that…

lol, go be yourself on your own time. On my time, you better be normal and happy about it.

None of the many many reasons someone may act this way mean they are broken, and therapy is not about 'fixing' someone to be the member of society you deem appropriate.

Re: How to be anti-social – a guide to incoherent and isolating social experiences

#177

Post by monknomo »

labrador wrote: post #106
erikerikson wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asocial seems more accurate than antisocial.

Yes I agree. That's a better word and what I was hoping for. Thanks.

not to be offensive, but the idea of an asocial labrador is hilarious

Re: How to be anti-social – a guide to incoherent and isolating social experiences

#178

Post by ge96 »

Nemi wrote: post #170
ge96 wrote: post #123

I'm bad at this, not that I want to be. Well I'm bad at it with women. I go to these workplace happy hours and I just sit there in silence. Hard to relate to people talking about the house they own or kids since I don't have either. I know to be a good conversationalist you just gotta ask them questions. It's not good to be alone, I was in a car crash one time and my buddies pulled up on the scene and gave me a ride…

ok, so please don't take this wrong, but that last sentence was such a non-sequitur that I think I know what at least some of your problem is talking to other people. EDIT: wait, I am going to go out on a limb and say that you meant "I was in a car crash of a conversation one time and my buddies pulled up on the scene and gave me a ride home."

I was literally in a car crash and friends (not in the crash) helped me get home is what I'm saying eg. good to not be alone/make friends

Re: How to be anti-social – a guide to incoherent and isolating social experiences

#179

Post by ge96 »

reedf1 wrote: post #172
ge96 wrote: post #123

I'm bad at this, not that I want to be. Well I'm bad at it with women. I go to these workplace happy hours and I just sit there in silence. Hard to relate to people talking about the house they own or kids since I don't have either. I know to be a good conversationalist you just gotta ask them questions. It's not good to be alone, I was in a car crash one time and my buddies pulled up on the scene and gave me a ride…

hey not to give unsolicited advice but to share my experience - it took me a long time to realize that I'm not anti-social, but just anti-party and anti-work social. I flourish in most other spaces - especially hobby spaces.

yeah the thing is I'm good talking to dudes, like cars this guy shows me his Porsche/I sit in it, has laser jammers built in, crazy. Like yeah when you're both into something you just connect

my problem with women is I only interact with them when I'm physically interested in them otherwise I leave them alone so yeah I'm on edge like "I gotta land her" kind of thing, which I'm not saying is good, as proof of this I haven't been in a relationship with a girl for 12 years, not that I haven't had the opportunity but I'm also picky which, I need to be impressive myself to match it but yeah

Re: How to be anti-social – a guide to incoherent and isolating social experiences

#180

Post by balamatom »

legacynl wrote: post #159
svnt wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your response assumes a lot about the homogeneity of subjective human experience that the data don’t seem to support. There is a diversity of physical attractiveness, innate and learned social grace, social environment, and phenotypic variability in psychosocial capacity that makes your comment sound extremely out of touch to some people. I can do what you describe because I am fortunate that many of my social intera…

The point is that a fully grown person (i.e. adult) should be able to regulate their emotions to the point of being able to have a conversation with 3 strangers. You might not like it, it might stress you out a bunch, you can cry afterwards, or have a stiff drink after, but you should be able to set those emotions aside for 30 minutes, especially for something important like a job interview. If someone cannot do that…

> No matter if it was 'done to them',

Love the quote marks. Next time try a Marx quote. I mean the brothers.

To fellow humans reading: the point is that the ones who did this to you are extremely unlikely to repent. Or even to comprehend that what they did to you is wrong.

Even if you were to explicitly hurt yourself - or place yourself in a position where you get hurt very badly - with the intent to communicate "do you still not see what you did to me?"... it's just no sweat off their, you know? "Yeah that person was all wrong, had it coming anyway".

The social contract protects them better than it protects you, so an "eye for an eye" solution is also unlikely to work - or even be possible: we don't hit, do we?

Therapy is... some person's job. That they trained for, you know? To put some food on the table, you know?

That means you can "go to therapy" in good faith (assuming you can access it in the first place) and not heal at all. The therapist might be a talented and intrinsically motivated person - or might just go "mmhmm" as you try to get through to them that they are doing exactly nothing to help you heal from some very particular, and perhaps not even unclearly defined at all, mental wound (that PP has had the gall to put in 'scare quotes'.)

Point is, the therapist will get paid either way. There is no shortage of people being told to get therapy by their fellows (who are too fucked up themselves to exhibit basic human fellowship). The systemic incentive to heal people's minds is next to nonexistent in comparison with the systemic incentive to drive hurt people mad, and then destroy them for being mad.

My suggestion: read some fucking books, and I don't mean books about fucking, I mean fucking books. Then, you might begin to get a clue how to get in touch with your spite, and how to become the undoing of all that ever wronged you without turning into that thing in the process.

TL;DR: You can start with those people who taught you that "feeling sorry for yourself" is a thing, and that it's what you need to do to make those who wronged you to regret their actions. You take those people and unlearn everything that they ever taught you. If there was anything true at all in what they wanted you to understand, you'll relearn it on your own, unencumbered by association with their other insidious lies. Then you can go tell two priestly kings that the balamatom sez hi ;-)

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