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Microsoft offers buyouts up to 7% of US employees

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Re: Microsoft offers buyouts up to 7% of US employees

#81

Post by mixdup »

rdtsc wrote: post #51
IncreasePosts wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, ageism is allowed as long it doesn't discriminate against older people(45 years old or older I think?). You're allowed to discriminate against youth all you want. Offering a buyout is in no way discriminatory since it is voluntary. If it was forced buyout, then yes it would be discriminatory

> In the US, ageism is allowed as long it doesn't discriminate against older people(45 years old or older I think?). You're allowed to discriminate against youth all you want. I think it's 40 https://www.eeoc.gov/age-discrimination . So for 40 or less years + X years worked to be more than 70 they'd have to work there 30 years starting at 10 years old or younger. Granted, some of the decisions I saw Microsoft make do…

>Still, what if they offered it based on gender, religious belief, or race? Would that look just as good or bad of an offer.

Those would be illegal. Based on age + tenure is not. Simple as that

But in terms of optics, I think this comes out positively. They're basically letting people retire early with a generous buyout offer that they are not required to take instead of just laying these people off with or without severance, which they'd be within their legal rights to do

Re: Microsoft offers buyouts up to 7% of US employees

#82

Post by mixdup »

workfromspace wrote: post #69
renewiltord wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all ageism is illegal.

I am not a native English speaker so I actually geniunely wonder: 1. Could you please tell more? 2. Could this be said for other -ism s as well? (Sexism, Racism, Ableism, Classism, Nationalism, Nepotism)

In the US ageism is illegal if you are discriminating against someone for being too old. It is not illegal in the US to discriminate against someone based on how young they are

Re: Microsoft offers buyouts up to 7% of US employees

#83

Post by [deleted] »

IncreasePosts wrote: post #26
rdtsc wrote: post #20

> years of work at Microsoft plus their age totals 70 Is that ageism? How is that different than saying if their gender is Y, their race is X or their religious belief is Z?

In the US, ageism is allowed as long it doesn't discriminate against older people(45 years old or older I think?). You're allowed to discriminate against youth all you want. Offering a buyout is in no way discriminatory since it is voluntary. If it was forced buyout, then yes it would be discriminatory

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft offers buyouts up to 7% of US employees

#84

Post by Bakermonster »

ntstatusquo wrote: post #65
donatj wrote: post #12

I feel like paying your most experienced employees to quit is exactly the opposite of what Microsoft needs right now. Paying to get rid of your institutional knowledge and experience is an insane move, especially as everything is on fire.

I assume this voluntary retirement offer will be something like 2 weeks of pay per year of service, plus maybe 16 weeks. And you get to keep your unvested stock. If that's not too far off, you'd expect a principal engineer's gross expected value to be something like 800k from such a move. It seems like the net opportunity cost of accepting the VR would play out like: 1) you lose 1 or 2 million net, in the scenario wh…

I'm in Seattle and used to work at MSFT, along with many others at where I work currently.

The details still haven't been given out to anyone, but I had drinks with someone who is thinking of taking the offer based on what they know. While no one has been told explicitly that they are on the list yet, this particular individual has been there more than long enough and is of the age where this actually makes sense to them.

What is known: 1. 2 years salary 2. RSUs are fully paid out, over standard timeline 3. No restrictions if someone chooses to find work elsewhere (do not compete is now illegal in WA) 4. We didn't discuss healthcare, but I'd assume its the same as salary (2 years)

Re: Microsoft offers buyouts up to 7% of US employees

#85

Post by johnnyanmac »

donatj wrote: post #12

I feel like paying your most experienced employees to quit is exactly the opposite of what Microsoft needs right now. Paying to get rid of your institutional knowledge and experience is an insane move, especially as everything is on fire.

Sounds like an issue for the next CEO when the current one takes their current parachute.

Re: Microsoft offers buyouts up to 7% of US employees

#86

Post by johnnyanmac »

avaer wrote: post #25

Can't help but notice the trend of tech companies shaving employees at an accelerating pace. Nobody wants to admit this (and there's a lot of reasons it could be temporary factors like "overhiring"), but to me this seems primarily if not exclusively driven by AI. You just can't say that to HR. The bigger question is if this keeps accelerating, can the industry and broader economy handle so many jobs disappearing, so…

We're in a recession. We're not going to admit we're in a recession until it's over (or worse, until it goes on long enough to qualify as a depression), because that's how the powers that can call a recession work.

And no, we cannot handle it. Not without a major overhaul of policy, New Deal style. Will we get that? Who knows.

Re: Microsoft offers buyouts up to 7% of US employees

#87

Post by johnnyanmac »

linkgoron wrote: post #62
avaer wrote: post #25

Can't help but notice the trend of tech companies shaving employees at an accelerating pace. Nobody wants to admit this (and there's a lot of reasons it could be temporary factors like "overhiring"), but to me this seems primarily if not exclusively driven by AI. You just can't say that to HR. The bigger question is if this keeps accelerating, can the industry and broader economy handle so many jobs disappearing, so…

Microsoft hired a lot of people post-covid. Googling, they went from 125k employees in 2017, to 163k in 2020, to 221k in 2022, and have been mostly steady in size since then (latest number from 2025 is 228k). How "temporary" is overhiring? I think that they could probably cut quite a bit from the company, and it might actually improve their output.

They keep doing cuts but their employee count in 2025 is still higher than whenever we identify "overhiring" to have occured? Meanwhile, we know US hiring is on the downswing the past few years.

Doesn't sound like a company that actually cares about "overhiring". More that where they hire is shifting.

Re: Microsoft offers buyouts up to 7% of US employees

#88

Post by johnnyanmac »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #73

History suggests the axe may well fall on the remaining if a certain target head-count is not achieved. Seeing a lot of layoffs lately in tech generally. My sense is that Corporate knows something that the rest of us do not. (Or at least that Wall Street does not.)

I don't think most of the people they will inevitably layoff qualify for this package. age + num years work >= 70. They seem to be per-emptively shielding against age discrimination lawsuits.

And yes, but no. I think we all know what's happening. No one wants to say it out loud.

Re: Microsoft offers buyouts up to 7% of US employees

#89

Post by johnnyanmac »

freediddy wrote: post #8
HNisCIS wrote: post #6

So the goal is to get rid of the people who have all the internal knowledge?

Speaking as a greybeard, it's not really that valuable. Younger people are just as smart, if not smarter, and they can figure it out if I get hit by a bus. There's literally nothing I know that someone younger couldn't learn or figure out.

>There's literally nothing I know that someone younger couldn't learn or figure out.

Learn, yes. Will they get the time and training for that, given that they are taking on 30+ year legacy code? I'm less confident.

Re: Microsoft offers buyouts up to 7% of US employees

#90

Post by anon7725 »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #72
donatj wrote: post #12

I feel like paying your most experienced employees to quit is exactly the opposite of what Microsoft needs right now. Paying to get rid of your institutional knowledge and experience is an insane move, especially as everything is on fire.

I'm laughing, having explained to my wife that if you are 69 and have worked there one year you are eligible for buyout/retirement. The kid that started at 10 years old though, there for the whole 51 years: sorry, in another 9 years you will be eligible. Hilarious that there is an algorithm.

Age + years of service >= 70.

61 + 51 in your example.

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