If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad? • Hacker News Board

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#621

Post by nvch » Thu, Apr 23, 2026, 9:51 PM UTC

HerbManic wrote: post #578

bontaq wrote: post #409

My mom said, "whatever we built isn't working anymore," and I think that captures most of the sentiment. It's also funny to see the "the economy is roaring!" "incomes are up!". Great, have they increased by as much as inflation? Can I afford a home? Work has if anything gotten worse in general. Remote's gone. Pay's less. ADHD maximum AI use required. Nobody can take a break. Pressure's on. 1.5 trillion more to the mi…

It is Taoist/Buddhist translator Red Pine (Bill Porter) who once said something along the line of; if the Taoists and traditional Buddhists where in charge, we wouldnt have built the world like we have today. It would be angled towards happiness and satisfaction rather than growth of the machine. Taken at an absolutists stance you could easily push that argument down (are you against ALL of modernity?!). But the over…

In this case, we might not have an advanced civilization with modern medicine and technology. Herbs for healing, candles for lighting, letters for communication. (Perhaps I wouldn't be alive without modern medicine. I suppose it's not easy to be dead and happy.)

Don't get me wrong, I love Taoism and Buddhism. But, from what I understand, they are not very pro-civilization and pro-progress.

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#622

Post by GS523523 » Thu, Apr 23, 2026, 9:52 PM UTC

eloisant wrote: post #612

GS523523 wrote: post #606

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is, like Jesus taught, religious people will care for others expecting nothing in return (reward is from God), but secular people will, even if it's as small as the narcissistic satisfaction of "look at me I'm such a good person." As soon as the cost-benefit of caring for family goes deeply negative, there's no reason to keep doing so.

OK, you did it again! Exactly what I'm talking about. You think that without religions we're just selfish calculating bastards. We're not, I promise.

How do you make decisions without calculations? we're all calculators, aren't we?

Can you provide a reason to care for someone that has nothing to do with religion and nothing to do with a personal/societal gain?

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#623

Post by peacebeard » Thu, Apr 23, 2026, 9:52 PM UTC

jppope wrote: post #499

peacebeard wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

COVID is highly correlated with many other things that would increase dangerous behavior. For example, COVID saw an increase in alcohol use, which in turn would result in increases in road rage and traffic fatalities. I think so much was going on at the time that it's hard to decide what is a first degree effect versus a downstream effect, or even unrelated to COVID and more related to, say, political turmoil of the…

High risk behavior such as drinking, drug use are all down. they spiked then dropped like a rock especially in Gen Z

We were talking about covid era trends specifically. Covid peaked around 2020-2022 and it's difficult to determine what other trends during that time period are directly caused by covid, or correlated, or even unrelated. Long term generational trends don't tell us as much about what was or wasn't caused by Covid itself.

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#624

Post by dudefeliciano » Thu, Apr 23, 2026, 9:55 PM UTC

HerbManic wrote: post #578

bontaq wrote: post #409

My mom said, "whatever we built isn't working anymore," and I think that captures most of the sentiment. It's also funny to see the "the economy is roaring!" "incomes are up!". Great, have they increased by as much as inflation? Can I afford a home? Work has if anything gotten worse in general. Remote's gone. Pay's less. ADHD maximum AI use required. Nobody can take a break. Pressure's on. 1.5 trillion more to the mi…

It is Taoist/Buddhist translator Red Pine (Bill Porter) who once said something along the line of; if the Taoists and traditional Buddhists where in charge, we wouldnt have built the world like we have today. It would be angled towards happiness and satisfaction rather than growth of the machine. Taken at an absolutists stance you could easily push that argument down (are you against ALL of modernity?!). But the over…

While I want to agree with you, my critical mind finds flaws in this. The idea of a taoist in charge is an oxymoron: "would this tortoise rather be dead and have its bones honored, or would it rather be alive and dragging its tail through the mud".

And the idea of a buddhist doing anything to change the world is also impossible to me, isn't it all about accepting reality as it is?

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#625

Post by Gander5739 » Thu, Apr 23, 2026, 9:55 PM UTC

justsomehnguy wrote: post #617

tensor wrote: post #604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually it's extremely well documented in science studies that money absolutely makes you happy up to a certain point. Basically if you don't have a home and food due to not enough funds, then yes money absolutely equals happiness. Inequality has grown to the point where the majority of younger people now have no hope of ever owning a home, and even large parts of the country are struggling with something as basic a…

> in science studies that money absolutely makes you happy up to a certain point Perceived happines. It's hard to talk about happines with a person with an empty stomach. But I was much more happy when I was young and poor than I became a not poor but no longer a young one.

> Perceived hapiness

Is there any other kind?

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#626

Post by ButlerianJihad » Thu, Apr 23, 2026, 9:56 PM UTC

gavinray wrote: post #613

cucumber3732842 wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because all the boomers and a lot of genX grew up with them being something that was ludicrously expensive due to rapid transit costs that now no longer exist now that we know how (other than sheer speed) to keep them from spoiling between tree and grocery store and around the same time that we got good at that we lifted a ban on mexican imports. It used to be oranges that were the luxury fruit.

My grandfather told me that for Christmas one year as a child, he got a fresh orange.

Only one year? And was that his only gift?

My sister and I received fresh oranges in our Christmas stockings every year. Along with nuts and chocolate and goodies like that. Of course, the "Christmas stocking" event was tied with St. Nicholas' Day on December 6, where it was traditional to place our shoes on the fireplace overnight, but the stockings were stretchy and higher-capacity than children's shoes!

Also, the fresh oranges were sort of ironic, because a tangerine tree grew in our backyard. I've always preferred tangerines.

Mom always packed fresh fruit with my school lunches. I had never heard or experienced the trading of food at lunch, and so I resorted to discarding the parts of lunch which I didn't want to eat. Oranges were the first to go. It wasn't the taste of oranges that I disliked, it was the stickiness and the labor involved in peeling them and getting past the rind and pith.

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#627

Post by Aurornis » Thu, Apr 23, 2026, 9:56 PM UTC

randomNumber7 wrote: post #459

bontaq wrote: post #409

My mom said, "whatever we built isn't working anymore," and I think that captures most of the sentiment. It's also funny to see the "the economy is roaring!" "incomes are up!". Great, have they increased by as much as inflation? Can I afford a home? Work has if anything gotten worse in general. Remote's gone. Pay's less. ADHD maximum AI use required. Nobody can take a break. Pressure's on. 1.5 trillion more to the mi…

Money should only have the purpose of realizing ones goals, it has no purpose in itself. The whole society has lost its goal when the only target is to maximize money.

When I do volunteer career mentoring for an early career group, money concerns are always a topic.

It's really bad in tech right now because the college students have been reading Blind and levels.fyi for years and think that if they're not making $500K TC they're never going to afford a house. They hit a very harsh reality when they graduate and realize their degree from an average state school and job search in a city that isn't the Bay Area, NYC, or Seattle isn't going to give them those $200K starting salaries they expected with a CS degree. Lately there's another sad discovery when they realize that nobody wants to hire a junior with no experience into a remote FAANG job.

Social media doomerism is also convincing a lot of them that everything is impossibly expensive. You wouldn't believe how many young people I've talked to who have household incomes in the $200 to $300K range who tell me they'll never be able to afford a house or to have kids. When you're immersed in doomer headlines you can lose track of the reality that people are raising families on much less than that all around you.

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#628

Post by thephyber » Thu, Apr 23, 2026, 9:58 PM UTC

Taikonerd wrote: post #107

The article is smarter than the title makes it sound. He's not seriously proposing that being rich makes you happy. And he notes that there's a big drop around 2020 specifically , which long-term trends don't explain. Just to state the obvious: 2020 was the year of COVID, which played hell with peoples' social lives. And I think it's been pretty well-proven that happiness is largely driven by the strength and quality…

2020 / Covid did A LOT of things, not just scramble our social lives.

There was a pretty large check from the government to workers (which supercharged some people risk-taking in stocks, crypto, events betting, sports betting). It became the year of WallStreetBets and meme stocks.

White collar people were working from home, which eliminated tedious commutes but also blended together work and home life. I’m pretty sure one of my sisters snapped dealing with several kids doing Zoom schooling and teaching her own classes over Zoom.

Many Americans reconsidered what is important in life. Another one of my sisters was “an essential worker” but wasn’t (and still isn’t) paid well and the health benefits didn’t increase even when the likelihood of getting a debilitating disease did.

It was also contentious politically, with a major election. I cut off half of my family after they went down the QAnon / Election Theft rabbit hole and they began to inhabit a completely different reality than I did. We all reacted to extreme stress in different ways and one of those ways was to distrust American institutions.

There are some post-2020 things that happened. Interest rates rose in 2022 for the first time since 2009ish. Lots of tech companies hired like drunken sailors during 2020 and began to layoff once the interest rates rose environment started to curb spending and investment. Twitter was bought and most of the staff was cut, giving other executives in Silicon Valley cover for attempting the same.

To stay with your theme of social lives changing, I think my personality has changed a bit where I am less likely to socialize with strangers (like in a 3rd space), to go out in the evenings, to hang out with coworkers.

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#629

Post by cindyllm » Thu, Apr 23, 2026, 9:59 PM UTC

nvch wrote: post #621

HerbManic wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is Taoist/Buddhist translator Red Pine (Bill Porter) who once said something along the line of; if the Taoists and traditional Buddhists where in charge, we wouldnt have built the world like we have today. It would be angled towards happiness and satisfaction rather than growth of the machine. Taken at an absolutists stance you could easily push that argument down (are you against ALL of modernity?!). But the over…

In this case, we might not have an advanced civilization with modern medicine and technology. Herbs for healing, candles for lighting, letters for communication. (Perhaps I wouldn't be alive without modern medicine. I suppose it's not easy to be dead and happy.) Don't get me wrong, I love Taoism and Buddhism. But, from what I understand, they are not very pro-civilization and pro-progress.

[dead]

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#630

Post by qwerpy » Thu, Apr 23, 2026, 9:59 PM UTC

pelasaco wrote: post #316

eBombzor wrote: post #72

I do feel this trend in my life. I have a job which I'm grateful for but nothing feels satisfying anymore, and I feel like it is much harder to connect to people or form deep relationships, especially in this field, unless you already have a clique in your workplace. On top of that, AI is generally a demotivating entity to the majority of people. Despite all the hype of Altman and whonots, I feel like people just don…

> I do feel this trend in my life. I have a job which I'm grateful for but nothing feels satisfying anymore, and I feel like it is much harder to connect to people or form deep relationships, especially in this field, unless you already have a clique in your workplace. do you have kids? Family? That is the ancient receipt for a great and happy life.

I had a job, was relatively happy. Then I had kids, less happy due to severe lack of time. Now, have no job and still have my kids. Happiest I’ve ever been.