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Microsoft offers buyouts up to 7% of US employees

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Re: Microsoft offers buyouts up to 7% of US employees

#51
post #20

> years of work at Microsoft plus their age totals 70 Is that ageism? How is that different than saying if their gender is Y, their race is X or their religious belief is Z?

In the US, ageism is allowed as long it doesn't discriminate against older people(45 years old or older I think?). You're allowed to discriminate against youth all you want. Offering a buyout is in no way discriminatory since it is voluntary. If it was forced buyout, then yes it would be discriminatory

> In the US, ageism is allowed as long it doesn't discriminate against older people(45 years old or older I think?). You're allowed to discriminate against youth all you want.

I think it's 40 https://www.eeoc.gov/age-discrimination. So for 40 or less years + X years worked to be more than 70 they'd have to work there 30 years starting at 10 years old or younger. Granted, some of the decisions I saw Microsoft make do look like they were made by 10 year olds, so maybe there is some truth there.

> Offering a buyout is in no way discriminatory since it is voluntary. If it was forced buyout, then yes it would be discriminatory

Still, what if they offered it based on gender, religious belief, or race? Would that look just as good or bad of an offer.

Re: Microsoft offers buyouts up to 7% of US employees

#52
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that logic a job offer is in no way discriminatory since it is voluntary?

A job offer can be discriminatory, why not? "You were our only female candidate, so we're offering you the job"

...there are a lot of answers on the "why not?"

Re: Microsoft offers buyouts up to 7% of US employees

#53
post #43
post #20

> years of work at Microsoft plus their age totals 70 Is that ageism? How is that different than saying if their gender is Y, their race is X or their religious belief is Z?

I mean they could instead fire them, at least they can opt to this.

Going by age, wouldn't that be breaking the law? Can't imagine they'd get more than a slap on wrist for it though, so kind of surprised they even bothered with the offer.

Re: Microsoft offers buyouts up to 7% of US employees

#54
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, ageism is allowed as long it doesn't discriminate against older people(45 years old or older I think?). You're allowed to discriminate against youth all you want. Offering a buyout is in no way discriminatory since it is voluntary. If it was forced buyout, then yes it would be discriminatory

By that logic a job offer is in no way discriminatory since it is voluntary?

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft offers buyouts up to 7% of US employees

#55
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft uses React Native in their Start menu because the kids don't know Windows programming anymore.

[flagged]

That new technology could be Zig or Rust, if that's the spiel.

Or it could be Ada, old and boring but generally safe.

New for the sake of new is vanity.

Re: Microsoft offers buyouts up to 7% of US employees

#56
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft uses React Native in their Start menu because the kids don't know Windows programming anymore.

[flagged]

Another way to look at it: Microsoft APIs have fallen from grace. Even their own devs don't dogfood anymore. They download something that Facebook made instead and reimplement the Holy Start Menu using that.

Re: Microsoft offers buyouts up to 7% of US employees

#57
post #20

> years of work at Microsoft plus their age totals 70 Is that ageism? How is that different than saying if their gender is Y, their race is X or their religious belief is Z?

In the US, ageism is allowed as long it doesn't discriminate against older people(45 years old or older I think?). You're allowed to discriminate against youth all you want. Offering a buyout is in no way discriminatory since it is voluntary. If it was forced buyout, then yes it would be discriminatory

"Hey, John. I see here that you didn't volunteer to retire. I admire your dedication to your job and to the company. However, I just got a troubling message from HR about your recent performance/allegations of misconduct/social media postings/ and I need you to come with me to the board room so that we can sort this out. Don't bring anything with you. Just leave it on your desk. That'd be grrrrreat..."

Re: Microsoft offers buyouts up to 7% of US employees

#58
post #25

Can't help but notice the trend of tech companies shaving employees at an accelerating pace. Nobody wants to admit this (and there's a lot of reasons it could be temporary factors like "overhiring"), but to me this seems primarily if not exclusively driven by AI. You just can't say that to HR. The bigger question is if this keeps accelerating, can the industry and broader economy handle so many jobs disappearing, so…

It's share price juicing, plain and simple. The evidence for AI displacement is thin, while the longer-term view of American enterprise is incredibly dim (the fact data sovereignty is now common vernacular as opposed to tinfoil-hat bullshit when I started discussing it almost a decade ago is anecdotal evidence enough to me, but just go look at EU/APAC spooling up their own clouds/services for more evidence), and those in power know that the business cycle is teetering on another, larger collapse after ~15 years of growth. It's all about getting that share price as high as possible to cash out before the downturn, and making a big to-do about handing over leadership to "the next generation" before the economy implodes.

Cynical? Yeah, but I fail to see evidence to the contrary yet.

> The bigger question is if this keeps accelerating, can the industry and broader economy handle so many jobs disappearing, so fast?

No, but smarter economies are already adapting. These companies make money through "butts in seats" licensing schemes, and their continuous layoffs and devaluing of labor in the face of constant price hikes are scaring businesses in other sectors into following suit with layoffs of their own. Eventually one or more of them will cross the trust thermocline (my money is on Microsoft), at which point numbers will collapse so fast that everyone else suffers for it as the larger economy panics. Think a bank run, but on XaaS licensing as companies downsize and cut their cloud bills, which in turn causes those companies to downsize, which slows economic engines in other tertiary industries, who then cut their headcount and licensing bills, etc, etc.

It's going to be a vicious cycle, but the thinking seems to be that doing this will depress the value of technical labor (some of the last highly-paid labor out there) between a glut of supply and AI offsetting some costs, with the assumption that consumers/workers will suck it up, cut back somehow, and make it work again.

Except that can't happen this time around. Fifty-odd years of American boom-bust cycles have left workers - especially younger workers - with nothing left to cut to survive. The cost of necessities is already unaffordable on current wages, and there's this expectation that we'll figure out how to cut down even further on our paychecks while still paying record prices for everything. The math doesn't work anymore, and so this downturn is going to hurt exponentially worse than the COVID, 2008, dotcom, S&L crisis, or stagflation turned out.

Re: Microsoft offers buyouts up to 7% of US employees

#59
post #53
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean they could instead fire them, at least they can opt to this.

Going by age, wouldn't that be breaking the law? Can't imagine they'd get more than a slap on wrist for it though, so kind of surprised they even bothered with the offer.

If it’s just by age I’d guess yes, but they always have the option to do mass layoffs including these folks + others.

In Spain there’s something similar called “prejubilación” (apologies for the Spanish link but the Wikipedia entry does not have an English version):

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prejubilaci%C3%B3n

Re: Microsoft offers buyouts up to 7% of US employees

#60
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that logic a job offer is in no way discriminatory since it is voluntary?

A job offer can be discriminatory, why not? "You were our only female candidate, so we're offering you the job"

Yes, that is exactly my point. "You were our only female employee, so we're offering you VR"
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