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VLC Core is LGPL

jbkempf.com

21–30 of 149 posts

Re: VLC Core is LGPL

#21
post #19
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because better and equally free and open source alternatives have existed for about as long yet remain more unknown. VLC sure plays a lot of things, but it's a a real jack of all trades and master of none. I certainly understand it's appeal, but there's certainly better yet equally simple solutions out there as well (eg. CCCP for Windows, various MPlayer2 bundles for OS X like MPlayer.app). Of course, the "downside"…

What does other players do better than vlc?

Subtitle rendering (with xy-vsfilter/vsfilter in general and newer versions of libass). High-quality video rendering (madVR).

I'm not at home right now so I can't reliably confirm if certain long-time issues still remain in the latest version (2.0.4), but VLC has also for the longest time had issues with pause not being completely instant (despite claiming so), the audio glitching slightly when pausing/unpausing, and seeking in H.264 video producing a garbled mess (this at least has gotten better with over time). Matroska ordered chapters support has also been shoddy for a very long time. Subtitle rendering was also absolutely hideous before they started using libass in version 1.0 (IIRC), at which point softsubs had already been in use for quite a long while. As I mentioned, VLC's development in terms of high quality playback has mostly been about playing catch-up with the better players, at worst being years behind them.

Re: VLC Core is LGPL

#22
post #17
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it a shame?

Because while every piece of free software is a wound against proprietary software, the more liberal licences like LGPL and the BSD/MIT-style licences are a wound against free software: proprietary interests can take free code without giving anything back.

With the MIT license, proprietary interests have the option of giving something back without having to give all back.

Which very often happens.

Re: VLC Core is LGPL

#23
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iTunes App Store, GPL is incompatible so it was pulled by request, I've still got a copy on my iPad though.

Don't think so, considering the limitations as to how many devices you may download the application to. If i am not mistaken was it five.

There is no limit.

Re: VLC Core is LGPL

#24
post #19
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because better and equally free and open source alternatives have existed for about as long yet remain more unknown. VLC sure plays a lot of things, but it's a a real jack of all trades and master of none. I certainly understand it's appeal, but there's certainly better yet equally simple solutions out there as well (eg. CCCP for Windows, various MPlayer2 bundles for OS X like MPlayer.app). Of course, the "downside"…

What does other players do better than vlc?

Video quality for one.

If you run Windows, using Media Player Classic - Home Cinema with madVR[1] will give you much, much better quality.

VLC handles some large video files - or file types - very poorly in my experience, too.

VLC is great, because it has an excellent standard of video quality, and it's easy as heck to use and set up for others, but for people who really care about optimal playback, it isn't really the best choice.

---

I think the main allure of VLC used to be that the tortuous labour of finding and installing codecs was suddenly moot. Using MPC-HC requires a lot of painstaking effort, especially once a codec stops working all of a sudden for some reason.

VLC is very Apple-esque in how it does everything for me and gives me an ease of mind, but with no guarantee that I will get the highest quality. And MPC-HC is very Windows-esque in how it requires a bunch of tweaking and pulling out hairs, which will eventually result in superior quality, but all in all perhaps an inferior experience and enjoyment, because it takes jumping through so many hoops to just get there.

Moving on from VLC to MPC-HC is very much like moving on from using primes in typography to curly quotes; it might be more aesthetically pleasing, but most of all, you kinda wish you could just unsee the difference and quit pursuing the folly of proper typography. These days, I can hardly stand reading books with justification, which unfortunately is quite a large majority of them.

It's a blessing and a curse, and I'd properly just recommend most people to find a video player similar to VLC in how easy it is to use, all while providing superior video quality and performance.

If you're watching a movie or TV show, I recommend that you watch it on Netflix or Blu-ray, if the option is available to you. That's what I do. :)

[1]: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=146228

Re: VLC Core is LGPL

#25
post #19
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because better and equally free and open source alternatives have existed for about as long yet remain more unknown. VLC sure plays a lot of things, but it's a a real jack of all trades and master of none. I certainly understand it's appeal, but there's certainly better yet equally simple solutions out there as well (eg. CCCP for Windows, various MPlayer2 bundles for OS X like MPlayer.app). Of course, the "downside"…

What does other players do better than vlc?

VLC struggles with DVD playback. In fact most DVDs this year will simply not play at all in VLC due to the menus causing it to crash.

Some random examples: Thor, The Dictator, The Avengers Assemble, (essentially everything published by "Walt Disney Studios Home Entertainment", and many things published by "Paramount Home Entertainment")

Now one might say to "just disable menus!" but unfortunately that is ineffective as they have put a bunch of fake tracks on the disc which cause you to bounce around the movie out-of-order.

Playback works fine on Windows Media Player, PowerDVD, and most hardware players. Only VLC and the DVD extraction software seem to crash. Unfortunately there are likely things in the spec' which allow this.

Re: VLC Core is LGPL

#26
post #17
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it a shame?

Because while every piece of free software is a wound against proprietary software, the more liberal licences like LGPL and the BSD/MIT-style licences are a wound against free software: proprietary interests can take free code without giving anything back.

> proprietary interests can take free code without giving anything back.

As long as the author is ok with that, and proprietary interests are happy with merging their own changes on each upstream release, I don't see any wounds.

Also, sometimes it's better for proprietary interests to lift (for example) a working TCP/IP implementation, rather than implementing their own poor thing and put it on the 'net for everybody else to deal with.

Re: VLC Core is LGPL

#27
post #15
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VLC has been able to handle pretty much anything you throw at it for many years and always been available across diverse platforms. It's an awesome product. Why so negative?

Because better and equally free and open source alternatives have existed for about as long yet remain more unknown. VLC sure plays a lot of things, but it's a a real jack of all trades and master of none. I certainly understand it's appeal, but there's certainly better yet equally simple solutions out there as well (eg. CCCP for Windows, various MPlayer2 bundles for OS X like MPlayer.app). Of course, the "downside"…

"jack of all trades" = superior product

"master of one" = inferior product

see also: Worse Is Better, Innovator's Dilemma

Re: VLC Core is LGPL

#28
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does other players do better than vlc?

VLC struggles with DVD playback. In fact most DVDs this year will simply not play at all in VLC due to the menus causing it to crash. Some random examples: Thor, The Dictator, The Avengers Assemble, (essentially everything published by "Walt Disney Studios Home Entertainment", and many things published by "Paramount Home Entertainment") Now one might say to "just disable menus!" but unfortunately that is ineffective…

WMP and PowerDVD are not free-as-in-beer software.

EDIT: wow, checking now, PowerDVD 'Standard' edition is AU$55 - you can get actual hardware DVD players for less than that!

Re: VLC Core is LGPL

#29
post #12

On a reading of how it was done, I guess if anyone had contributed stuff under the GPL and particularly objected to LGPL relicensing the could probably still make arguments about derivative works... Interestingly there's no mention of dissenting opinions from anywhere. Not that I'm implying that this move is a bad thing, I would just expect if you ask a large enough group of developers any question about licensing yo…

The commit message includes in its list of modules which are not converted:

- iOS audio output and video display, because author refuses the license change

- Mono, Headphone and Dolby, because author refuses the license change

So there is some dissenting opinion.

Re: VLC Core is LGPL

#30
This is my website :) (I did not expect that to come on HN, to be honest)

Anyway, the title is, of course, misleading. VLC core, named libVLCcore is LGPL since last year (I did it too in december) and the wrapper for 3rd party applications libVLC was relicensed too at the same time.

This is different, since most modules of VLC are now LGPL. We speak about codecs, demuxers, format parsers, protocol accesses, filter and outputs. And those modules are way more important in terms of contributors and lines of code than the VLC core. In fact, we speak here of 230 people with around 300,000 lines of code, compared to 80 people and 80,000 lines of code for the VLC core.

Of course, from a higher-level point of view, all those playback modules are part of the "core of VLC" :)

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