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If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

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Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#211

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

This discussion skips any consideration of the underlying premise that "self-reported happiness" is always significant

Populations in different countries often have very different pyschologies and societal customs, including propensity or reluctance to be outspoken, to express "feelings", to complain, etc. Populations may differ in how they respond to questions about "happiness"

For example, a country with relatively high "self-reported happiness" may also have a relatively high rate of suicide

If a "happy" population is the objective, then there may be more to examine than simply "self-reported happiness"

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#213

Post by 9rx »

reducesuffering wrote: post #89
conductr wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American, I don’t think of the suburbs when I think of rich people. I think of what’s left of our middle class just trying to do their best. Many of them probably have negative net worth when debt is considered. But they need public schools, they need big (relatively) affordable housing, they need strip centers with the same 5 restaurants every exit of the highway. When I think of wealth, I think of mostly inne…

Eh, the wealthiest in America mostly live in spacious suburbs. They aren't very city-like, but they're not the same suburbs as GP mentioned either. In every wealthy metro, there will be a couple areas that the wealthiest coalesce around. Think Hillsborough/Atherton/Palo Alto, Carmel IN, Newton/Brookline MA, Beverly Hills, Greenwich County CT, River Oaks in Houston, Boulder CO, Scottsdale AZ, etc

> the wealthiest in America mostly live in spacious suburbs.

The wealthiest people I see don't live in any particular place. They have houses everywhere — inner city, the spacious suburbs you mention, rural, and everything in between. They don't limit themselves to living in just one country either.

Having one home and seeing your entire life revolve around it is what poor people do.

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#214

Post by netcan »

> If you are looking for a sympathetic ear to explain this phenomenon, certainly do not seek counsel from your local economist

Funny, considering this is an article by an economist. But, isn't "psychology" responsible for investigating this?

> It’s probably not just about phones and social media

The other reasons were eliminated with confidence. This one comes with a "just."

Is it really improbable that "The Sadness" isn't just phones/SM/etc? These do act on core levers of happiness, optimism, anxiety and suchlike. They are social or social-like. Our relationships are big levers on happiness. Otoh you can think through a crude neural stimulus lens. Being someplace noisy, dark, unpleasant or whatnot can also affect mood. Tech usage is pervasive enough that it can plausibly be the factor. It's uncertain, but I don't think this can be eliminated as a possible cause... even a singular cause.

It's also parsimonious (I think) with the anglophone stats,"permapandemic theory"and most of the article.

I'm actually intuitively sympathetic to the writers' economics argument. I agree. Structurally, there is a structural difference between a "chill" economy and a "highly stressful" that isn't much related to GDP (or inflation). I don't think stratification or inequality affect people as much as risk/anxiety... I imagine average happiness will be higher.

But... as this article itself points... the evidence is kind of pointing at "it's not the economy, stupid"

Luckily (or tragically, as the case may be), I think we're at the start of a new media paradigm shift. AI may replace current mediums in large parts of people's lives... and we shall see what changes.

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#215

Post by cucumber3732842 »

asdfman123 wrote: post #78
comrade1234 wrote: post #6

I feel like wealthy americans live like poor Europeans - they live far outside the city in crowded suburbs, no amenities walking distance so they have to drive everywhere, having to commute an hour to their job, eating bad manufactured food... I'm American but moved to Europe years ago. It may be even better being poor here because at least you might live in a village and you'll have healthcare and your government wo…

Young people with good jobs who live in dense urban areas seem uniquely unhappy, though.

So then the obvious follow up question is whether it's the young, the job or the urban area (or all three) that's making them unhappy?

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#216

Post by bombcar »

spwa4 wrote: post #166
lanthissa wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this isn't accurate. america has a wealth per adult of 551,350 germany has a wealth per adult of 256,180 if you exclude the top 10 highest wealth holders in each country its 543,385 vs 252,811. america's a rich country compared most other countries its also got huge wealth in equality because its top .001% is something that doesn't exist anywhere else

ssshhhh ... in reality it's of course the case that the poorer a country is, the more unequal it is. In Pakistan the gulf between rich and poor is easily 100x what it is in the US. The most luxurious hotels in the world, the most decadent, aren't in Washington. They're in places like Teheran. Like Islamabad. Like Kinshasa. Things like, hotels where 5 prostitutes on standby per room is standard. The richest people in…

There's a point somewhere where the money becomes a scorecard - once you can afford the best room at the Kinshasa luxury hotel, you can't really "go higher" on that axis, you need something else.

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#217

Post by mathgradthrow »

john_strinlai wrote: post #42
mathgradthrow wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are responding to data about the median American.

income data about the median american. income data alone does not tell a very complete story.

Income is by far the dominant term, you're being ridiculous.

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#218

Post by everdrive »

xyzelement wrote: post #190
everdrive wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> say my average atheist friend who is a director in a FAANG Not a lot of "average" going on here.

What I should have said is the two guys are fairly representative and more importantly line up to the story: if we are so Rich how are we so sad. So I used to relatively rich friends as the example:)

That's totally fair. I think to the extent that wealth degrades community you're going to have a clear trend.

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#219

Post by ewjt »

pb7 wrote: post #114
eBombzor wrote: post #72

I do feel this trend in my life. I have a job which I'm grateful for but nothing feels satisfying anymore, and I feel like it is much harder to connect to people or form deep relationships, especially in this field, unless you already have a clique in your workplace. On top of that, AI is generally a demotivating entity to the majority of people. Despite all the hype of Altman and whonots, I feel like people just don…

At some point you have to take some responsibility for your life. I can't relate to any of the things you mentioned. I have deep relationships with lots of people, across entirely different types of groups. We see each other regularly (weekly, sometimes more), we do fun things together, we go to events and plan trips, we always have things to talk about, we have hobbies and communities to connect with even more peopl…

Both can be true—

We need to be the change we want to see.

There are significant structural issues in society that present headwinds for average people trying to build a fulfilling life.

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#220

Post by some_random »

abraxas wrote: post #198
some_random wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just objectively untrue. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/median-in...

This is not terribly informative until expenses and safety nets are taken into account. Someone living in the Netherlands may have that 20% lower median income but being able to rely on public healthcare and get around without a personal vehicle does wonders for one's sense of peace and agency. That likely counts a lot more towards personal wellbeing than the addtional dollars in your account especially when health c…

The comment I am responding to is "because America's not rich; like 100 people here just have more money than most countries" not whatever you think I am responding to.
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