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If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

derekthompson.org

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Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#61
post #4

Relentless striving without any kind of real meaning isn't healthy. Even people who aren't deeply Christian in the religious sense are still inherited of much of the values. I.E. people must prove their value via an extraordinary work ethic.

> people must prove their value via an extraordinary work ethic

Ironically, this is the literal opposite of Christianity. Christianity in a nutshell is "Jesus saves people because we are incapable of saving ourselves."

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#62
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because research on this topic supports it. Happiness and wealth are correlated.

Really? Last I read the correlation breaks above a certain threshold, roughly that of "I don't need to worry about food or bills".

And when is that exactly? It definitely isn't making (unadjusted for inflation) the $70k that study suggests.

People are happy when they are secure and unhappy when they are insecure. Who can you name is secure in all of their physical, social, mental, spiritual, etc needs right now?

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just objectively untrue. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/median-in...

- Around 76% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. - 71% of adults say that their monthly debt payments prevent them from saving. When we say America, we can't just mean the 20% who are ok. It has to mean the 70% who aren't. America is not rich. It used to be. It is not now.

> Around 76% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck.

Not for any meaningful definition of "living paycheck to paycheck". Per Federal Reserve studies, the percentage of the population with no excess income after paying for necessary expenses is 10-15%. That's still a lot of people but it isn't 76%.

For everyone else, it is a lifestyle choice.

Per the BLS, the median household has ~$1,000 leftover every month after all ordinary (not necessary) expenses. That includes rent, car payments, healthcare, etc.

Americans have a crazy amount of discretionary income compared to the rest of the world.

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#64

because America's not rich; like 100 people here just have more money than most countries

this isn't accurate.

america has a wealth per adult of 551,350 germany has a wealth per adult of 256,180

if you exclude the top 10 highest wealth holders in each country its 543,385 vs 252,811.

america's a rich country compared most other countries its also got huge wealth in equality because its top .001% is something that doesn't exist anywhere else

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#65

because America's not rich; like 100 people here just have more money than most countries

That's just objectively untrue. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/median-in...

I see Norway on that list (no surprise).

What is so sad is how much better it could be in the U.S.… but for some odd notion that Billionaires and Corporations are thought to owe so little and the people of this country thought to deserve so little.

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#66
post #7

Good article with a weird title. Why assume wealth and happiness are correlated?

Stereotypes of extrema in wealth are attached to images of extrema in happiness. The poor sad person vs the rich happy one. Cliché are often great tools to make quick judgment, but of course quick judgements often fail miserably when it comes to scale the idea.

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#67

I feel like wealthy americans live like poor Europeans - they live far outside the city in crowded suburbs, no amenities walking distance so they have to drive everywhere, having to commute an hour to their job, eating bad manufactured food... I'm American but moved to Europe years ago. It may be even better being poor here because at least you might live in a village and you'll have healthcare and your government wo…

It's similar in Canada as well, I think that is simply the outcome of massive countries. Not everyone can afford to live in the big cities, whereas in Europe it's much harder to even find a place to live that isn't either a big city or right next to one.

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Around 76% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. - 71% of adults say that their monthly debt payments prevent them from saving. When we say America, we can't just mean the 20% who are ok. It has to mean the 70% who aren't. America is not rich. It used to be. It is not now.

Fun fact, that's also untrue or at least dubious. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/may/16/facebook-p...

"Data from 2020 through 2022 found that between 50% and 63% of Americans report living paycheck to paycheck."

(Well, that's a relief.)

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#69
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it's a key indicator, even PPP adjusted income metrics are insufficient to compare happiness. e.g even if PPP may adjust for some aspects of outsized US health care costs, the risk and unreliability of access and affordability of US healthcare is not reflected in median income values.

Yeah I totally agree that income and happiness are not interchangeable, I'm just really tired of people lying about objective facts.

I have no quibble with the objective facts, but we are talking about happiness, and answers are being returned about wealth, and the discussion was talking about how wealth does not equate to happiness in some measures - particularly in terms of factors of life stability, like reasonable access to healthcare...

Re: If America's so rich, how'd it get so sad?

#70

I feel like wealthy americans live like poor Europeans - they live far outside the city in crowded suburbs, no amenities walking distance so they have to drive everywhere, having to commute an hour to their job, eating bad manufactured food... I'm American but moved to Europe years ago. It may be even better being poor here because at least you might live in a village and you'll have healthcare and your government wo…

As an American, I don’t think of the suburbs when I think of rich people. I think of what’s left of our middle class just trying to do their best. Many of them probably have negative net worth when debt is considered. But they need public schools, they need big (relatively) affordable housing, they need strip centers with the same 5 restaurants every exit of the highway. When I think of wealth, I think of mostly inne…

It varies by location and by what we mean by rich. In New York, for example, you're totally right. But for most of America the model is country club + suburb, 6,000 sqft house with a pool, big public school district that is very well funded, SUVs, &c. for the "rich".

And in some cities you actually have both. Where I live we have these big, wealthy suburbs (New Albany for example), Delaware County in central Ohio is one of the top countries by income in the whole country - all suburban. Yet we also have some absolutely fantastic and premier neighborhoods in the Columbus area with prices to reasonably match given the scarcity of actual neighborhoods and such, though I actually think the homes in these areas are a bit under-priced and the large suburban homes a bit over-priced.

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