Live data from Hacker News

Glitch Is Closing

glitch.com

61–70 of 109 posts

Re: Glitch Is Closing

#61

I played Glitch for a couple hours once and it's pretty obvious to me why it didn't work. After all the pre-launch hype about changing the face of gaming forever, the game was dreadfully boring -- you basically walk around and click on things. I described it to a friend as "FarmVille where you don't get your own farm." Sure, there was a lot of art; I think I had my pick of several dozen hairstyles and encountered hun…

I suppose my experience was similar, but what really lost me was that this "revolutionary" game that was supposed to be so different from the standard fare was running on Flash taking up all my CPU cycles. Even back in 09, I was sick of it (but I was sick of all Flash in general). And of course, that's one reason they cited for their closing, and possibly a large reason.

Re: Glitch Is Closing

#62

Bummer for Stewart Butterfield. But maybe third time's the charm! This does seem to count as a vote against Big Production Up Front. I have to wonder if they had started smaller, used a more "Lean" strategy, got a product to market quicker, and started working on revenue, if they would've A) discovered the "insurmountable" problems sooner, B) had some revenue to play with, and C) been in a position to pivot when the…

My initial reaction to your comment was to snort and roll my eyes, but I am sincerely curious: can you name any similar games that found success by building an MVP and evolving into a sophisticated MMPORG?

RuneScape was initially developed by two people and has grown to become extremely successful.

Re: Glitch Is Closing

#63

I played Glitch for a couple hours once and it's pretty obvious to me why it didn't work. After all the pre-launch hype about changing the face of gaming forever, the game was dreadfully boring -- you basically walk around and click on things. I described it to a friend as "FarmVille where you don't get your own farm." Sure, there was a lot of art; I think I had my pick of several dozen hairstyles and encountered hun…

I suppose my experience was similar, but what really lost me was that this "revolutionary" game that was supposed to be so different from the standard fare was running on Flash taking up all my CPU cycles. Even back in 09, I was sick of it (but I was sick of all Flash in general). And of course, that's one reason they cited for their closing, and possibly a large reason.

Replying to myself... but on that same note, we can look to Jagex and note their sustained success with Runescape, perhaps the "original" in-browser MMO. More impressive is that it's Java-based and has been since 2001, yet they've continually updated it to run on more powerful hardware.

Re: Glitch Is Closing

#64
post #2

This saddens me on some aspects: 1. As a fellow game developer that published a game (and didn’t hit the jackpot). (We’re a small startup at the time launching our little game and it didn’t go well at all after a 2 hard-working year, about the same time when Glitch launched). 2. It’s the Flickr’s founding dream to create this, and if you read the backstory of Flickr, you’ll notice that the founder initially wanted to…

Perhaps this paragraph from a 2010 CNET article says something:

Because Glitch is a thinking-person's social game, Tiny Speck is not aimed at the entire world, at least not at first, especially not teens eager for the next World of Warcraft. Instead, Butterfield admitted, "There's not a better way to say [who we're targeting] than people with above average intelligence and sophisticated tastes, in their 20s or early 30s...The intersection of NPR listeners and game players."

Re: Glitch Is Closing

#65
It's a gorgeous game, and I'm heartbroken that they're shutting down. I was part of the very first wave of beta testers when they first launched. Even though I didn't spend much time, I remember being shocked by their attention to details. Every little thing was nicely planned, designed and implemented.

But, aside from the intrinsic beauty, the truth is that there was no reason for you to keep coming back. It didn't have the same evil addictive psychology of Zynga's games ("Your crops are dying! Your friend Samantha just moved to a farm next door. Spam your friends - or buy some credits - so you can level up faster."). No intricate action + social interactivity like WoW. No puzzle challenges like Limbo, or adventure-style like Monkey Island (true, neither was multiplayer). No fast paced action like War of Tanks/War of Warplanes..

In the end it was just a cute massive multiplayer social game. Maybe the cutest ever. But this doesn't seem enough to attract a loyal audience - other than maybe a few other game geeks, artists and designers.

This reminds me of the Steve Blank's (the original author behind the lean startup movement) stories. Do you really need to implement a full game, with that many details, with that many layers, with so many features, just to realize that your users aren't coming back in the first place? Can't you put your mom/sister/son to play for a few months, and just see how many times they keep coming back (when you're not looking)? Can't you probably get to the same conclusions with, say, 10% of the effort? If you do this early enough, you'll still have the other 90% of runway to make corrections and explore different options (or, hell, pivot to totally different business model if you discovered your boat isn't going anywhere).

Of course hindsight is a bitch. It's always so much easier to explain what happened, that to forecast the future...

But Glitch repeated some of the same mistakes that others have done in the past. Case in point: the excellent paper "Lessons from Habitat" (http://www.fudco.com/chip/lessons.html), about the experimental project created by Lucasfilm in the late 80's. The entire paper is a great read, but one part that strikes me as relevant to this discussion is:

While we find much of the work presently being done on elaborate interface technologies -- DataGloves, head-mounted displays, special-purpose rendering engines, and so on -- both exciting and promising, the almost mystical euphoria that currently seems to surround all this hardware is, in our opinion, both excessive and somewhat misplaced. We can't help having a nagging sense that it's all a bit of a distraction from the really pressing issues. At the core of our vision is the idea that cyberspace is necessarily a multiple-participant environment. It seems to us that the things that are important to the inhabitants of such an environment are the capabilities available to them, the characteristics of the other people they encounter there, and the ways these various participants can affect one another. Beyond a foundation set of communications capabilities, the details of the technology used to present this environment to its participants, while sexy and interesting, are of relatively peripheral concern.

Keep in mind the entire project ran on Commodore64, and two decades ago a 1200bps connection was leading edge. But even though gamers today have much higher expectations in terms of quality than ever before, the core principle is still the same: success of a massive multiplayer game is defined not by its level of peripheral sophistication (be it design, cuteness, or head mounted displays), but by the social experience and characteristics of how people can interact with each other.

(btw, 20+ years and we still don't have head-mounted displays. No, Google Glass doesn't count)

Another issue was channel distribution. It's really challenging to succeed with a web-only game, especially when you're not anchored Facebook. And if on top of that you're using Flash, you'll be missing out all those of 2-3 minutes mini-slots of "free time" that people have every day on their mobile devices (waiting for the train, the bus, bathroom, elevator, etc). And Glitch almost never sent emails. So they were expecting people to bookmark the site and keep coming back. Yeah, right...

Anyway, in the end of the day the Glitch team deserves a lot of praise for accomplishing what they did. It's a gorgeous project, and I can just hope that their work will inspire future designers and game developers, and hopefully parts of the code gets open sourced.

Re: Glitch Is Closing

#66
post #23
post #2

This saddens me on some aspects: 1. As a fellow game developer that published a game (and didn’t hit the jackpot). (We’re a small startup at the time launching our little game and it didn’t go well at all after a 2 hard-working year, about the same time when Glitch launched). 2. It’s the Flickr’s founding dream to create this, and if you read the backstory of Flickr, you’ll notice that the founder initially wanted to…

There is an unseen sload amount of hard work placed in Glitch Maybe someone could buy the IP cheap, add in some Zynga-style dark gamification and massive marketing and have themselves the next Farmville. Wait, forget I said that. Giants forbid. Does this mean hard work != successful? On the Web, hard work never guaranteed success.

And contrary to physical media, on the web, hard-work does not leave traces, and no recognition in the distant future.

Re: Glitch Is Closing

#67
post #12

We are offering refunds for all purchases made since November 1st, 2011 (a little over a year ago) and will immediately begin refunding all payments which can be refunded automatically through our payments processors (which will be nearly all of those made in the last 50 or so days). We will then move on to manual refunds for older payments. This will take some time to wrap up since there is not always a simple way t…

I wish they had people opt-in to refunds. It seems that they received a lot of VC funding so they can handle it, but it sets a precedent that an ailing bootstrapped game company, or one that blew through all their funding, would have a hard time following. I think automated refunds for the last 90 days, and giving refunds to the people who asked before that, would be a nice sustainable way to handle it.

Re: Glitch Is Closing

#68

I played Glitch for a couple hours once and it's pretty obvious to me why it didn't work. After all the pre-launch hype about changing the face of gaming forever, the game was dreadfully boring -- you basically walk around and click on things. I described it to a friend as "FarmVille where you don't get your own farm." Sure, there was a lot of art; I think I had my pick of several dozen hairstyles and encountered hun…

I suppose my experience was similar, but what really lost me was that this "revolutionary" game that was supposed to be so different from the standard fare was running on Flash taking up all my CPU cycles. Even back in 09, I was sick of it (but I was sick of all Flash in general). And of course, that's one reason they cited for their closing, and possibly a large reason.

I play flash games all the time on Kongregate, and 9 out of 10 make my laptop sound like an helicopter, but I keep going back, and so do a bunch of people, from what I can see.

Glitch was not the case, and even if it were I doubt flash performances may be an issue for why users didn't get in the game. The game was just terribly boring.

Of course, there are plenty more sensible reasons for giving up flash, but "the continued decline of the Flash platform" seems more like "game does not run on iPad".

Re: Glitch Is Closing

#69

It's a gorgeous game, and I'm heartbroken that they're shutting down. I was part of the very first wave of beta testers when they first launched. Even though I didn't spend much time, I remember being shocked by their attention to details. Every little thing was nicely planned, designed and implemented. But, aside from the intrinsic beauty, the truth is that there was no reason for you to keep coming back. It didn't…

Correction: "Of course hindsight is a bitch." should read, "Of course hindsight is a Glitch."

Re: Glitch Is Closing

#70
The idea of a game company that's venture-backed before shipping anything seems odd to me.

The startup world in general is moving toward a hits-driven model, but a game company whose product is only used for entertainment takes this to an extreme. A game like Glitch doesn't solve any problem, and it's not even a generalized tool like Twitter where the problems it enables solving become apparent later. It's simply a game, that will live or die based on how well it entertains people. It's very hard for me to understand how investors evaluate an idea like this before anything has shipped. (Of course, Stuart Butterfield probably raised money based on past success alone.)

It doesn't even seem like the company had plans to build a portfolio of games like a Zynga or EA. So they raised a bunch of money before they had even a glimmer of product-market fit, hired a bunch of people, and then figured out that their game wasn't good enough.

The only strategy that seems to work in the game business is to be a low-budget, low-profile indie developer for a few years till you have a portfolio of titles that you've developed yourself or for a publisher, then raise financing (debt or equity) to develop a larger project on your own steam. Raising money from the start for a single high-profile, whimsical product seems destined to fail.

Of course, hindsight being 20/20 and all that.

Post reply on HN