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I am building a cloud

crawshaw.io

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Re: I am building a cloud

#341

Post by abustamam »

aliasxneo wrote: post #335

There's a common conversation that goes on around AI: some people swear its a complete waste of time and total boondoggle, some that its a good tool when used correctly, and others that its the future and nothing else matters. I see the same thing happen with Kubernetes. I've run clusters from various sizes for about half a decade now. I've never once had an incident that wasn't caused by the product itself. I recall…

Good insight. It's always easy to blame that which you don't understand. I know nothing about k8s, and my eyes kinda glaze over when our staff engineer talks about pods and clusters. But it works for our team, even if not everyone understands it.

When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a nail. And the people with axes are wondering how (or indeed even why) so many people are trying to chop wood with a hammer. Further, some axewielders are wondering why they are losing their jobs to people with hammers when an axe is the right tool for the job. Easy to hate the hammer in this case.

Re: I am building a cloud

#343

Post by p_l »

aliasxneo wrote: post #335

There's a common conversation that goes on around AI: some people swear its a complete waste of time and total boondoggle, some that its a good tool when used correctly, and others that its the future and nothing else matters. I see the same thing happen with Kubernetes. I've run clusters from various sizes for about half a decade now. I've never once had an incident that wasn't caused by the product itself. I recall…

Funnily enough the post isn't shitting on k8s, it's shitting on cloud and that k8s (lipstick) can't fix the pig (cloud)

Re: I am building a cloud

#344

Post by rockostrich »

aliasxneo wrote: post #335

There's a common conversation that goes on around AI: some people swear its a complete waste of time and total boondoggle, some that its a good tool when used correctly, and others that its the future and nothing else matters. I see the same thing happen with Kubernetes. I've run clusters from various sizes for about half a decade now. I've never once had an incident that wasn't caused by the product itself. I recall…

At the end of the day it's all different levels of abstractions and whether or not you're using the abstraction correctly. With k8s, the best practices are mostly set in a lot of use cases. For LLMs, we still have no idea what the best practices are.

Re: I am building a cloud

#345

Post by aliasxneo »

p_l wrote: post #343
aliasxneo wrote: post #335

There's a common conversation that goes on around AI: some people swear its a complete waste of time and total boondoggle, some that its a good tool when used correctly, and others that its the future and nothing else matters. I see the same thing happen with Kubernetes. I've run clusters from various sizes for about half a decade now. I've never once had an incident that wasn't caused by the product itself. I recall…

Funnily enough the post isn't shitting on k8s, it's shitting on cloud and that k8s (lipstick) can't fix the pig (cloud)

Yeah, I meant to respond to another thread (the top one currently) that was talking more specifically about k8s-hate.

Re: I am building a cloud

#346

Post by p_l »

abustamam wrote: post #341
aliasxneo wrote: post #335

There's a common conversation that goes on around AI: some people swear its a complete waste of time and total boondoggle, some that its a good tool when used correctly, and others that its the future and nothing else matters. I see the same thing happen with Kubernetes. I've run clusters from various sizes for about half a decade now. I've never once had an incident that wasn't caused by the product itself. I recall…

Good insight. It's always easy to blame that which you don't understand. I know nothing about k8s, and my eyes kinda glaze over when our staff engineer talks about pods and clusters. But it works for our team, even if not everyone understands it. When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a nail. And the people with axes are wondering how (or indeed even why) so many people are trying to chop wo…

I would also say that a lot of people, even people who are professional k8s operators, don't understand enough of the "theory" behind it. The "why and how", to put it shortly.

And the end result is often that you have two tribes that have totally incorrect idea of even what tools they are using themselves and how, and it's like you swapped them an intentionally wrong dictionary like in a Monthy Python sketch.

Re: I am building a cloud

#347

Post by radlad »

geodel wrote: post #339
adamtulinius wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you spin up Kubernetes for "a couple of containers to run your web app", I think you're doing something wrong in the first place, also coupled with your comment about adding SDN to Kubernetes. People use Kubernetes for way too small things, and it sounds like you don't have the scale for actually running Kubernetes.

Doing Kubernetes like doing Agile is mandatory nowadays. I've been asked to package a 20 line worth of bash script as docker image so it can be delivered via CI/CD pipeline via Kubernetes pods in cloud. Value is not that I got job done at a day's notice. It is black mark that I couldn't package it as per industry best practices. Not doing would mean out of job/work. Whether it is happening correctly is not something…

There are many organizations which still ship software without Kubernetes. Perhaps even the vast majority.

Re: I am building a cloud

#348

Post by radlad »

shimman wrote: post #320
ownagefool wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends what you're doing it. My app is fairly simple node process with some side car worker processes. k8s enables me to deploy it 30 times for 30 PRs, trivially, in a standard way, with standard cleanup. Can I do that without k8s? Yes. To the same standard with the same amount of effort? Probably not. Here, I'd argue the k8s APIs and interfaces are better than trying to do this on AWS ( or your preferred cloud p…

Call me old fashion but I prefer tools like Dokploy that make deployment across different VPS extremely easy. Dokploy allows me to utilize my home media server, using local instances of forgejo to deploy code, to great effect. k8s appears to be a corporate welfare jobs program where trillion dollar multinational monopolistic companies are the only ones who can collectively spend 100s of millions sustaining. Since mos…

Just as a quick aside, I tried Coolify, Dokploy, Dockge, and Komodo, and if you're trying to do a Heroku-style PaaS, Dokploy is really good. Hands down the best UX for delivering apps & databases. It's too bad about the licensing. (e.g. OIDC + audit logs behind a paid enterprise license.)

Coolify is full of features, but the UX suffers and they had a nasty breaking bug at one point (related to Traefik if you want to search it.) Dockge is just a simple interface into your running Docker containers and Komodo is a bit harder to understand/come up with a viable deployment model, and has no built-in support for things like databases.

Re: I am building a cloud

#349

Post by conductr »

aliasxneo wrote: post #335

There's a common conversation that goes on around AI: some people swear its a complete waste of time and total boondoggle, some that its a good tool when used correctly, and others that its the future and nothing else matters. I see the same thing happen with Kubernetes. I've run clusters from various sizes for about half a decade now. I've never once had an incident that wasn't caused by the product itself. I recall…

Seems like this can be applied to an increasingly large pool of subjects, where things are polarized by default and having a moderate/indifferent opinion is unusual. For example, I thought of US politics while reading your comment

Re: I am building a cloud

#350

Post by sgt »

marcosdumay wrote: post #294
sgt wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why can't we put a wrapper onto systemd and make that into a light weight k8s?

Systemd is on the wrong layer here. You need something that can set your machine up, like docker.

Okay it sets the machine up, but not the underlying host machine though.
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