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I am building a cloud

crawshaw.io

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Re: I am building a cloud

#111

Post by marcosscriven »

dajonker wrote: post #74

> Making Kubernetes good is inherently impossible, a project in putting (admittedly high quality) lipstick on a pig. So well put, my good sir, this describes exactly my feelings with k8s. It always starts off all good with just managing a couple of containers to run your web app. Then before you know it, the devops folks have decided that they need to put a gazillion other services and an entire software-defined netw…

First time I’ve heard of Kamal. Looks ideal!

Do you pair it with some orchestration (to spin up the necessary VM)?

Re: I am building a cloud

#112

Post by eddythompson80 »

dajonker wrote: post #74

> Making Kubernetes good is inherently impossible, a project in putting (admittedly high quality) lipstick on a pig. So well put, my good sir, this describes exactly my feelings with k8s. It always starts off all good with just managing a couple of containers to run your web app. Then before you know it, the devops folks have decided that they need to put a gazillion other services and an entire software-defined netw…

And those devops folks just let your single debian VM be? It sounds like you have, like many of us, an organizational/people problem, not a k8s problem.

Maybe those devops folks only pay attention to k8s clusters and you're flying under their radar with your single debian VM + Kamal. But the same thinking that results in an overtly complex, impossible to debug, expensive to run k8s cluster can absolutely result in the same using regular VMs unless, again, you are just left to your own devices because their policies don't apply to VMs, yet.

The problem usually is you're one mistake away from someone shoving their nose in it. "What are you doing again? What about HA and redundancy? slow rollout and rollback? You must have at least 3 VMs (ideally 5) and can't expose all VMs to the internet of course. You must define a virtual network with policies that we can control and no wireguard isn't approved. You must split the internet facing load balancer from the backend resources and assign different identities with proper scoping to them. Install these 4 different security scanners, these 2 log processors, this watchdog and this network monitor. Are you doing mtls between the VMs on the private network? what if there is an attacker that gains access to your network? What if your proxy is compromised? do you have visibility into all traffic on the network? everything must flow throw this appliance"

Re: I am building a cloud

#113

Post by jrflowers »

> The standard price for a GB of egress from a cloud provider is 10x what you pay racking a server in a normal data center.

> $160/month

  50 VM
  25 GB disk+
  100 GB data transfer+
100GB/mo is <1mbps sustained lmao

Re: I am building a cloud

#115

Post by [deleted] »

dajonker wrote: post #74

> Making Kubernetes good is inherently impossible, a project in putting (admittedly high quality) lipstick on a pig. So well put, my good sir, this describes exactly my feelings with k8s. It always starts off all good with just managing a couple of containers to run your web app. Then before you know it, the devops folks have decided that they need to put a gazillion other services and an entire software-defined netw…

[deleted]

Re: I am building a cloud

#116

Post by lifty »

wernerb wrote: post #101
dajonker wrote: post #74

> Making Kubernetes good is inherently impossible, a project in putting (admittedly high quality) lipstick on a pig. So well put, my good sir, this describes exactly my feelings with k8s. It always starts off all good with just managing a couple of containers to run your web app. Then before you know it, the devops folks have decided that they need to put a gazillion other services and an entire software-defined netw…

DevOps lost the plot with the Operator model. When it was being widely introduced as THE pattern I was dismayed. These operators abstract entirely complex services like databases behind yaml and custom go services. When going to kubecon i had one guy tell me he collects operators like candy. Answers on Lifecycle management, and inevitable large architectural changes in an ever changing operator landscape was handwave…

Those managed databases from the big cloud providers have even more machinery and operator patterns behind them to keep them up and running. The fact that it's hidden away is what you like. So the comparison makes no sense.

Re: I am building a cloud

#117

Post by _el1s7 »

fragmede wrote: post #81
stingraycharles wrote: post #2

Potentially useful context: OP is one of the cofounders of Tailscale. > Traditional Cloud 1.0 companies sell you a VM with a default of 3000 IOPS, while your laptop has 500k. Getting the defaults right (and the cost of those defaults right) requires careful thinking through the stack. I wish them a lot of luck! I admire the vision and am definitely a target customer, I'm just afraid this goes the way things always go…

> Cloud vendor pricing often isn't based on cost. Business 101 teaches us that pricing isn't based on cost. Call it top down vs bottom up pricing, but the first principles "it costs me $X to make a widget, so 1.y * $X = sell the product for $Y is not how pricing works in practice.

That's not a business 101.

Re: I am building a cloud

#118

Post by _el1s7 »

barrkel wrote: post #109
jeffrallen wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to spell this out more clearly for the back row.of the classroom: The price is what the customer will pay, regardless of your costs.

Economics teaches us that a big difference between cost and price attracts competition which should make the price trend towards the cost.

Exactly.

Re: I am building a cloud

#119

Post by dgb23 »

dajonker wrote: post #74

> Making Kubernetes good is inherently impossible, a project in putting (admittedly high quality) lipstick on a pig. So well put, my good sir, this describes exactly my feelings with k8s. It always starts off all good with just managing a couple of containers to run your web app. Then before you know it, the devops folks have decided that they need to put a gazillion other services and an entire software-defined netw…

> Then before you know it, the devops folks have decided that they need to put a gazillion other services and an entire software-defined networking layer on top of it.

I'm not familiar with kubernetes, but doesn't it already do SDN out of the box?

Re: I am building a cloud

#120

Post by tamimio »

> $20/month for your VMs

>One price, no surprises. You get 2 CPUs, 8 GB of RAM, and 25 GB of disk—shared across up to 25 VMs.

This might sounds like a good thing compared to the current state of clouds, but what’s better than that is having your own. The other day I got a used optiplex for $20, it had 2TB hdd, 265gb ssd, 16gb, and corei7. This is a one time payment, not monthly. You can setup proxmox, have dozens of lxc and vm, and even nest inside them whatever more lxc too, your hardware, physically with you, backed up by you, monitored by you, and accessed only by you. If you have stable internet and electricity, there’s really no excuse not to invest on your own hardware. A small business can even invest in that as well, not just as a personal one. Go to rackrat.net and grab a used server if you are a business, or a good station for personal use.

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