Scores decline again for 13-year-old students in reading and mathematics (2023) • Hacker News Board

Re: Scores decline again for 13-year-old students in reading and mathematics (2023)

#241

Post by wyldberry » Wed, Apr 22, 2026, 10:47 PM UTC

nicbou wrote: post #234

havaloc wrote: post #86

Much ink has been spilled in the comments already, but as a child of the 80s, computers were a class, and not a lifestyle. If I had gone through school with what's available today, I doubt I would have done as well as I did. Most things were handwritten, I learned cursive, and computer class was Oregon Trail and basic programming essentially. Looking back, I don't think Chromebooks, iPads and the like would have been…

Isn't the available learning material better than it has ever been? As a 30-something, basic AI uses completely blow my mind. It has never been this easy to be curious, because there is a machine in my pocket that reduces the cost of finding answers to nearly zero. I can point my phone at a painting and dig as deep as I want into its subject, artist, movement and so on. It's a real world Pokédex. Then there are count…

My hypothesis is that for us, now post studying in the "old ways", are able to use these tools to increase learning.

The fundamental problem seems to be that screens as a basis for learning how to learn, study, and retain information in kids appears to be detrimental to developing that core skill we have already developed.

Re: Scores decline again for 13-year-old students in reading and mathematics (2023)

#242

Post by jcims » Wed, Apr 22, 2026, 11:04 PM UTC

gamerDude wrote: post #200

jcims wrote: post #178

My wife taught first through fifth grade from ~2004 until 2017. One thing that was evident to me from the sidelines was how much admin work was continually added to her workload without any consideration for the amount of class time she had. The focus on data derived from continuous testing of the students resulted in her and her peers sticking ever more closely to a continuously disrupted and rotated collection of c…

I worked for a couple of years in education and I think this sentiment is so harmful: > It's also difficult to experiment or strike out on your own as an educator when the future of the students in front of you could be negatively impacted by any mistakes made (not to mention job/test scores/etc) so most just ride the rail all the way down. It's pervasive and makes things move so slowly. The biggest issue I have with…

I agree with you 100%. It's a system that punishes and stifles innovation.

Re: Scores decline again for 13-year-old students in reading and mathematics (2023)

#243

Post by nradov » Wed, Apr 22, 2026, 11:09 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #137

jvanderbot wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funding per student is on the rise, or level on inflation-adjusted $ https://educationdata.org/public-education-spending-statisti... The funding for dept of ed has _exploded_ after 2000 https://educationdata.org/public-education-spending-statisti... At the same time, school scores started to sag after 2014 https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/ushistory/results/scores/ There are highly politicized blogs which can discuss…

> Funding per student is on the rise, or level on inflation-adjusted $ That's at the state level. But that doesn't account for the explosion in admin salaries and positions. The actual money a district spends on each student has been going down every year. Those funds are going more towards admin activities. > I got ahold of all the teachers I knew and asked them what impact it would have, and their response was most…

It's crazy to pay income taxes to the federal government and then have the Department of Education turn around and grant that money back to the several states so they can use it to fund public school districts. A lot of those tax dollars get wasted along the way. Better to cut out the middlemen and send property and/or income taxes directly to local governments, with some state level aid for poor areas with low tax revenue.

Re: Scores decline again for 13-year-old students in reading and mathematics (2023)

#244

Post by lamasery » Wed, Apr 22, 2026, 11:09 PM UTC

trevithick wrote: post #215

lamasery wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've just been assuming it's all gotten way, way worse over the last 20 years or so, too. One of the main things keeping it even slightly in check was local newspapers and TV stations with actual reporters. Those are all gone, either shuttered or snapped up by huge companies that fired most of the staff and are milking them for the last money they can provide, or using them to distribute propaganda (e.g. Sinclair), a…

I remember hearing David Simon, creator of The Wire, predicting this (fall of local news enabling unchecked corruption). Here's an article on it from nearly 20 years ago: https://www.theguardian.com/media/2009/mar/27/david-simon-wi... > "Oh, to be a state or local official in America over the next 10 to 15 years, before somebody figures out the business model," says Simon, a former crime reporter for the Baltimore Su…

One of the seasons of The Wire is largely about a major newsroom (the Baltimore Sun, unsurprisingly) taking its first hard punch from the collapse of the news market and unchecked M&A activity, so I'm not surprised he commented on it elsewhere too. God, what a great show.

I'm not sure there is a viable business model for local investigative reporting waiting to be discovered, any more. At least not in the US, not in mid-sized or smaller markets. It's semi-functional in rich, dense cities. Might remain so for a while longer. It's just everywhere else that now has no watchdogs aside from the occasional, lazy, probably partisan look-see from state regulatory agencies, and maybe resource- and access-starved hobbyists if they're lucky. The pros are gone. A few still watching big national-scale stuff (bigger audience!) but all the smaller parts of the system have gone dark.

Re: Scores decline again for 13-year-old students in reading and mathematics (2023)

#245

Post by like_any_other » Wed, Apr 22, 2026, 11:10 PM UTC

jvanderbot wrote: post #62

japhyr wrote: post #22

People are talking about Covid, smartphones/screens, social media, and AI. No one has mentioned defunding public education yet. In Alaska, where I lived most of the last 20 years, education has been largely flat funded for about a decade now. Imagine running an organization in 2026 on that organization's 2016 budget. Schools have a bunch of obligations they have to spend on. Every time health care costs for staff go…

Funding per student is on the rise, or level on inflation-adjusted $ https://educationdata.org/public-education-spending-statisti... The funding for dept of ed has _exploded_ after 2000 https://educationdata.org/public-education-spending-statisti... At the same time, school scores started to sag after 2014 https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/ushistory/results/scores/ There are highly politicized blogs which can discuss…

To make your point even further, the US is near the global top in educational spending per student: https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/cmd/education-exp...

Re: Scores decline again for 13-year-old students in reading and mathematics (2023)

#246

Post by nradov » Wed, Apr 22, 2026, 11:14 PM UTC

mothballed wrote: post #220

RyanOD wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes to this! So many people turn a blind eye to the critical role parents play in supporting teachers holding kids accountable. And I get it, holding kids accountable is very, very challenging, but that's the gig people sign up for when they decide to have a family. And I'm a former high school teacher and my wife is a current high school teacher so I've experienced all of this first-hand.

It's also becoming increasingly more likely to enter into college with lower relative and absolute high school performance. Perhaps some wonder why they should try so hard in HS, when most anyone that graduates can get into college, and no employer is asking a college grad what their high school grades and scores were. There was a time back in the 60s or 70s or earlier when anyone that graduated HS could get a decent…

In an era of declining birth rates and thus fewer students graduating from high school, of course the third-tier private colleges are going to lower their admission standards in order to survive. In the long run this won't work because employers will eventually figure out that degrees from those colleges are worthless. But they'll keep up their grifting for a while, and leave a lot of mediocre students stuck with huge debts they can't pay off.

Re: Scores decline again for 13-year-old students in reading and mathematics (2023)

#247

Post by nradov » Wed, Apr 22, 2026, 11:34 PM UTC

boringg wrote: post #191

japhyr wrote: post #22

People are talking about Covid, smartphones/screens, social media, and AI. No one has mentioned defunding public education yet. In Alaska, where I lived most of the last 20 years, education has been largely flat funded for about a decade now. Imagine running an organization in 2026 on that organization's 2016 budget. Schools have a bunch of obligations they have to spend on. Every time health care costs for staff go…

No one has discussed that lack of rigour in public education anymore. In my neighborhood the kids don't have homework until grade 7. Literally not a piece of homework came home from grade 1-6. While I am not saying give kids more homework for the sake of work -- you do need to have some rigour. There was a movement about 10 years ago to let kids be kids and have lots of free time for exploration etc, remove competiti…

Much of the homework assigned at my local public high school is repetitive busy work. I'm not surprised that students don't care. And some of it is a completely worthless waste of time, like literally making little arts and crafts projects that would be more suitable for elementary school. I know that teaching is a tough job but it seems like a significant fraction of them are putting in the least possible effort.

Re: Scores decline again for 13-year-old students in reading and mathematics (2023)

#248

Post by nradov » Wed, Apr 22, 2026, 11:37 PM UTC

empath75 wrote: post #111

japhyr wrote: post #22

People are talking about Covid, smartphones/screens, social media, and AI. No one has mentioned defunding public education yet. In Alaska, where I lived most of the last 20 years, education has been largely flat funded for about a decade now. Imagine running an organization in 2026 on that organization's 2016 budget. Schools have a bunch of obligations they have to spend on. Every time health care costs for staff go…

My wife is on a school board in a large district that is trying to cut spending. The problem is not really how much money they have and giving them more money doesn't help. The problem at least in our state is: Public schools are subsidizing charter schools Public schools have many legal requirements to provide services that charter schools don't have to deal with. Charter schools also have a lot of freedom to refuse…

I don't understand your comment. Charter schools are public schools. Are you confusing charter schools with private schools? Charter schools generally can't pick and choose students the way private schools do.

Re: Scores decline again for 13-year-old students in reading and mathematics (2023)

#249

Post by nradov » Wed, Apr 22, 2026, 11:41 PM UTC

havaloc wrote: post #86

Much ink has been spilled in the comments already, but as a child of the 80s, computers were a class, and not a lifestyle. If I had gone through school with what's available today, I doubt I would have done as well as I did. Most things were handwritten, I learned cursive, and computer class was Oregon Trail and basic programming essentially. Looking back, I don't think Chromebooks, iPads and the like would have been…

Oh how I hated having to learn cursive when I was in school. What an utter waste of limited instructional time that could have been better spent on mathematics or science or touch typing or creative writing or literally any other subject. If some students really want to learn calligraphy then make it an art elective but don't torture the rest of us.

Re: Scores decline again for 13-year-old students in reading and mathematics (2023)

#250

Post by yoyohello13 » Wed, Apr 22, 2026, 11:43 PM UTC

rendang wrote: post #167

yoyohello13 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is always a common rebuttal but I used to work in education and believe me there was not a bunch of new money coming in. Quite the opposite. Maybe the data shows funding going up but that money is not making it to the students.

So if you agree that administrators in public ed are doing a poor job managing the resources allocated to them, do you support school choice efforts that will allow more competition from charter/private schools that have incentives to spend more wisely?

Why would private schools be incentivized to spend more wisely? Why would paying a CEO obscene amounts of money to lobby for public funds be better than fixing public schools?