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You don't need advice from editors on rejected manuscripts

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Re: You don't need advice from editors on rejected manuscripts

#31

Post by GuinansEyebrows »

IncreasePosts wrote: post #5
virgil_disgr4ce wrote: post #3

[flagged]

Does his opposition of homosexuality some how make his point about writing critiques less interesting? I can't believe you wrote your comment on a computer with wouldn't exist without eugenicist shockley's nobel prize winning invention. Shameful!

> Does his opposition of homosexuality some how make his point about writing critiques less interesting?

i'll bite: yes. it belies a lack of compassion, imagination, openness and curiosity required to create compelling fiction or writing advice that resonates with people who aren't bigots.

Re: You don't need advice from editors on rejected manuscripts

#32

Post by peterfirefly »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #11
metabagel wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion, it's relevant to Card's credibility. If he shows poor judgement in one area, why would I want to listen to his opinion on something else, even something which is considered to be in his wheelhouse? Poor judgement is poor judgement.

Everyone shows poor judgement in one area. It sucks that he has those ideas, but he's a good writer.

The not-so-short story Ender's Game was great. The novel Ender's Game was awful. I hope someone told him it was too long, too repetitive, and too Gary Stu. I wish he had taken that feedback to heart.

Re: You don't need advice from editors on rejected manuscripts

#33

Post by marcosdumay »

vynase wrote: post #30
mwigdahl wrote: post #2

I liked Zvi Mowshowitz' summary of this: If someone tells you what's wrong, listen to them. If they tell you how to fix it, ignore them.

It’s more like you should have 5-10 readers. If they all say the same thing they’re right. If half think the pacing is too slow and half think it’s too fast you are probably spot on.

It's more likely that your pacing isn't consistent and is both too fast and too slow.

Re: You don't need advice from editors on rejected manuscripts

#34

Post by Silamoth »

There’s a similar situation in game dev. Players are very good at identifying problems - this isn’t fun, this feels too hard, etc. However, the solutions they suggest are often terrible, resulting in broken, unfun games. The same advice applies: Figure out what’s actually wrong and fix that.

Is that level really too hard, or did you just fail to properly introduce a new ability? Is the story boring, or is the story taking away from the enjoyable gameplay?

Re: You don't need advice from editors on rejected manuscripts

#35

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

lamasery wrote: post #21
bombcar wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone and their LLM is flooding them with slop every day, it's no wonder it's hard to get any feedback whatsoever. And even if you do get selected, you may fail for reasons that have nothing to do with the quality of your writing.

As far as I can tell it's nearly impossible to get picked up by a major publisher now unless you're bringing a very large social media following. If you've got the social media following, your book can be really bad and it'll still get published (examples... abound). The book hardly matters, guaranteed sales via an audience you bring to the table (so, no work for them) is what they're interested in. I mean, it was al…

The best possible position is to have a breakout self-published hit. An author with that can hand the boring difficult expensive parts - print and distribution - over to a trad publisher, and keep the rights to ebooks, audio books, movies, and the rest, hiring negotiating talent as and when it's needed.

For breakout authors, publishers will often get in touch directly.

Agents are basically - well, I don't know any more. There used to be a point to them, but now they're running a kind of cottage industry of pointless gatekeeping for wannabes who will make pennies even if they are picked up.

It's not the same industry it was fifty years. It's not even the same industry it was twenty years ago.

A lot of wannabes haven't worked this out yet. They still think a proper author goes through proper channels, and is properly anointed with a proper agent and a proper contract.

And then most of them are surprised to discover their properly published book sells less than a thousand copies, and it's off the shelves almost immediately - because that's how print works unless you're a Big Name - and they can't give up their day jobs.

Re: You don't need advice from editors on rejected manuscripts

#36

Post by asdfman123 »

mwigdahl wrote: post #2

I liked Zvi Mowshowitz' summary of this: If someone tells you what's wrong, listen to them. If they tell you how to fix it, ignore them.

Very useful way to think about politics. Always remember that people have valid concerns you might not understand... but also that their solutions are probably terrible.

Re: You don't need advice from editors on rejected manuscripts

#37

Post by IncreasePosts »

GuinansEyebrows wrote: post #31
IncreasePosts wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does his opposition of homosexuality some how make his point about writing critiques less interesting? I can't believe you wrote your comment on a computer with wouldn't exist without eugenicist shockley's nobel prize winning invention. Shameful!

> Does his opposition of homosexuality some how make his point about writing critiques less interesting? i'll bite: yes. it belies a lack of compassion, imagination, openness and curiosity required to create compelling fiction or writing advice that resonates with people who aren't bigots.

Orson Scott Card is one of the best selling sci Fi authors of all time, and has won the hugo and nebula award multiple times, and has been translated into 35+ languages. I think you would be pretty hard pressed to show that his writing isn't compelling to many people.

Re: You don't need advice from editors on rejected manuscripts

#38

Post by GMoromisato »

asdfman123 wrote: post #36
mwigdahl wrote: post #2

I liked Zvi Mowshowitz' summary of this: If someone tells you what's wrong, listen to them. If they tell you how to fix it, ignore them.

Very useful way to think about politics. Always remember that people have valid concerns you might not understand... but also that their solutions are probably terrible.

Yes! Unfortunately, some people with terrible ideas get elected.

Re: You don't need advice from editors on rejected manuscripts

#39

Post by GMoromisato »

I read about a screen test of The Deer Hunter, in which people said the movie was amazing but the beginning (the hunt, the wedding, etc.) was too long. The producers cut a bunch of scenes and tried again. This time the feedback was, "the movie sucks."

Re: You don't need advice from editors on rejected manuscripts

#40

Post by asdfman123 »

GMoromisato wrote: post #38
asdfman123 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very useful way to think about politics. Always remember that people have valid concerns you might not understand... but also that their solutions are probably terrible.

Yes! Unfortunately, some people with terrible ideas get elected.

Oh, every day citizens have terrible ideas too. Sometimes even worse. Sometimes our elected officials who "don't get anything done" are serving as necessary filters for those terrible ideas.
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