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Musicians are manufacturing sold-out shows

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Re: Musicians are manufacturing sold-out shows

#61

Post by FatherOfCurses »

As an antidote to this I would like to offer my experience in the industry in the mid-90's specifically around Garth Brooks.

I've never been a fan of his music, but at that time he really seemed to be focused on ensuring that as many regular fans got to see his shows as possible.

He limited the price of his tickets to I believe $25. This was when he was at the peak of his fame so he easily could have gotten away with charging much more.

Secondly he would often book a massive amount of dates in each city but only announce one of them. The next show in the block of dates would go on sale after the previous one sold out. It didn't fully stop scalpers but the unpredictable nature of how many shows in total there would be and when they would be on sale cut down on a lot of the scalping.

Again, not a huge fan of his music, but he seemed genuinely interested in helping his fans get to his shows.

Re: Musicians are manufacturing sold-out shows

#62

Post by CPLX »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #59
CPLX wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Livenation’s profit margins are not very impressive for a business that supposedly has pricing power. Being skeptical of reported profit is a prerequisite for any conversation about entertainment industry accounting. > Are you suggesting Livenation’s leaders (Rapino, etc) are stealing from the other shareholders? Of course I am. These guys are basically mobsters. > Page 31 of Livenation’s 2025 10-K shows $25B reven…

> Being skeptical of reported profit is a prerequisite for any conversation about entertainment industry accounting. If you are referring to Hollywood accounting, that has nothing to do with audited figured in SEC filings. Hollywood accounting is just poorly written contracts litigated in civil court. Misstated financials in SEC filings are a criminal offense, which obviously could be happening, but I have yet to see…

Yes, of course. They are all in on the fraud.

This is like the equivalent of this economist joke:

https://www.econlib.org/bills-on-the-sidewalk/#:~:text=Kevin...

Has anyone not noticed that the Justice Department has literally been for sale? That we have stopped prosecuting white-collar crime in this country for a generation or two?

There's always a way. They hire the former prosecutor, they employ the children of congressmen. The money permeates everybody and everything. It's a criminal organization. It's obvious to anyone paying even the slightest bit of attention.

The idea that you can tell that people aren't committing white-collar crime because they haven't been prosecuted is a hilarious assumption.

It's not a conspiracy theory. It's right out in the open. They think they won't ever face real actual personal consequences. They're probably right.

Re: Musicians are manufacturing sold-out shows

#63

Post by nebula8804 »

throwanem wrote: post #51
packersville wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gross

[flagged]

If I could do it all over again I would jump at the chance to live in that $5000 roach pit instead of wasting my life in the middle of bumfuckstan. It is one of my biggest regrets in life. Its insane how such a tiny fraction of land produces so much of the culture the world consumes.

Re: Musicians are manufacturing sold-out shows

#64

Post by elzbardico »

dtech wrote: post #20
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #19

Marketing 101. I don't go to concerts often, but there was one last year. Tickets for the thursday show were sold out within minutes, but oh look, they tried Really Hard and revealed they were going to do an EXTRA show on the Friday! (they already had it planned but wanted to make sure the first show on the less popular day was sold out first)

Or they didn't want to commit to the extra shows until demand was clear

Logistically, it is complicated to do that unless it is a small venue and you are an indie band. It takes a lot of planning, contracts and advance payments to make a reasonably big show to happen. Larger venues are usually booked with months in advance, and most things you pay in advance are not refundable.

Re: Musicians are manufacturing sold-out shows

#65

Post by dhosek »

grvdrm wrote: post #26
raddan wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was a teenager in the 90's I managed to score tickets to what was probably one of Pink Floyd's last tours. If I recall correctly, a ticket cost $40, which was pretty steep for a kid with only a paper route. Still, I was very excited--it was my first concert without my parents--but the experience was terrible. The show was in a stadium. The sound was terrible. Everyone around me was smoking pot. I was so far aw…

Feel exactly the same way. I start going to shows in the late 90s - once in high school. All small venues. I started going to more shows in college (mostly jam) and then even more as an adult with just a smidge more money. Two shows stick out as particularly bad: 1. Dave Matthews Band - Fenway Park. There is no way to correct all of the oddities (and charm) of the place. The sound was terrible. I enjoyed the show any…

The one great stadium experience I had was seeing Billy Joel on his River of Dreams tour. I had seats behind the stage about six rows back. Billy Joel did about half the show with his piano lifted up in place of the drums and Liberty Devitto moved to where the piano had been, so suddenly, most of the people had the behind the stage seats and I was in row six. But other stadium/outdoor amphiteatre shows I’ve been to (Genesis, Peter Gabriel, The Who) have been kind of underwhelming affairs.

Re: Musicians are manufacturing sold-out shows

#66

Post by kevinsync »

CPLX wrote: post #39
kevinsync wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Live Nation and Ticketmaster literally serve as "the bad guy" in the transaction. The truth is, due to market realities, ticket prices (MSRP, not reseller prices) need to be high so that everybody gets their cut. All those fees people lose their minds about? Those more or less pay out the promoters, because the artists are too chickenshit to roll the full costs into their bare ticket prices, and unrealistic tick…

This is not a reasonable take on what's actually happening. It's never been a reasonable take, but posting this today after Live Nation has literally just been found liable by a jury shows deep confusion. The ticket prices are not high because of market realities. They're high because of illegal monopoly behavior that inflates costs and then steals the money and gives it to Michael Rapino and his friends. The behavio…

Re: LN, I agree 100% with the evidence presented in, and outcome of, that trial; Live Nation absolutely deserves the verdict they received and it's amazing it took this long to get it. I just don't fully buy the idea that they (and they alone) are the reasons that tickets are priced the way that they are.

I guess I'm in the Lefsetz School of Thought [0][1] about it all (and I know, he's a polarizing personality, so I get it when people think he's full of shit), but I also think that two things can be right at the same time (Rapino and gang are criminals, ticket prices cost a lot because that's what they cost)

Maybe I'm wrong! I don't have much skin in this game man, I just personally find that his takes mirror what I see happening in real life to friends and colleagues who are artists, promoters and venue operators.

[0] https://lefsetz.com/wordpress/2026/04/20/capping-resale/

[1] https://lefsetz.com/wordpress/2026/04/15/live-nation-loses/

Re: Musicians are manufacturing sold-out shows

#67

Post by BetaDeltaAlpha »

cush wrote: post #43
altacc wrote: post #8

In short, the author thinks it's the same reason that a half empty club will keep a line waiting outside: it inflates demand. Reality is probably that's one of the reasons only some of the time.

There’s a bakery around here that actively works to make their line as long as possible. They might have the best croissants in the city, but they also have one person bagging them up at a snail’s pace and chatty cashier that wants to verify with every customer that yes, indeed, it is a beautiful day outside and the weather this week is supposed to be sunny with maybe some rain on Tuesday and she hopes it doesn’t rai…

Arsicault in the Richmond District in SF?

Re: Musicians are manufacturing sold-out shows

#68

Post by throwanem »

nebula8804 wrote: post #63
throwanem wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

If I could do it all over again I would jump at the chance to live in that $5000 roach pit instead of wasting my life in the middle of bumfuckstan. It is one of my biggest regrets in life. Its insane how such a tiny fraction of land produces so much of the culture the world consumes.

Sucks to suck.

Re: Musicians are manufacturing sold-out shows

#69

Post by a_t48 »

BetaDeltaAlpha wrote: post #67
cush wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a bakery around here that actively works to make their line as long as possible. They might have the best croissants in the city, but they also have one person bagging them up at a snail’s pace and chatty cashier that wants to verify with every customer that yes, indeed, it is a beautiful day outside and the weather this week is supposed to be sunny with maybe some rain on Tuesday and she hopes it doesn’t rai…

Arsicault in the Richmond District in SF?

The secret to not waiting at Ariscault is to live nearby and go on a weekday - you can walk right up.

Re: Musicians are manufacturing sold-out shows

#70

Post by SoleilAbsolu »

FatherOfCurses wrote: post #61

As an antidote to this I would like to offer my experience in the industry in the mid-90's specifically around Garth Brooks. I've never been a fan of his music, but at that time he really seemed to be focused on ensuring that as many regular fans got to see his shows as possible. He limited the price of his tickets to I believe $25. This was when he was at the peak of his fame so he easily could have gotten away with…

Did he ever book shows as Chris Gaines (his alt-rock alter ego) in that timeframe?
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