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Another Day Has Come

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Re: Another Day Has Come

#91

Post by brk »

throw0101d wrote: post #76
throwanem wrote: post #16

Until now Apple hasn't addressed the mass market in nearly two decades. That's one human generation, and it is also the span of time between when something first hits and when it sees its first retro revival. That isn't a coincidence. I'm starting to get a little excited! This is going to be quite a decade.

> Until now Apple hasn't addressed the mass market in nearly two decades. Going back to 2008: > But the most fun on the conference call came when he parried analysts’ questions about new product areas that Apple might or might not enter. A recurring question among Apple watchers for decades has been, “When is Apple going to introduce a low-cost computer? > Mr. Jobs answered that decades-old complaint by stating, “We…

There is more to it than just accounting for inflation. Apple has done a number of other things in the meantime, including designing and manufacturing their own chips, that have changed the economies of this. Until the very recent RAM price explosion, a sub $500 computer in 2008 was probably more like a sub $350 computer today.

Re: Another Day Has Come

#92

Post by bombcar »

jmbwell wrote: post #80
Robdel12 wrote: post #15

> “When we work on making our devices accessible by the blind, I don’t consider the bloody ROI.” I just have to call out how much this impacted my mom’s life. She’s 100% blind and has access because of her iPhone and iPad. Yes she learned JAWSs and literally took classes to do it. Every single windows update has made it so she’d have to retake this class. The iOS updates a rocky but she isn’t literally hamstrung. My…

I struggle not to have a cynical take these days. Of course he cared about the ROI. The ROI is access to an underserved market, a halo effect, a new community of adherents, a new reason for customers to cross the moat into the ecosystem… a modest investment with a durable long term return in multiple categories. I appreciate that it’s a win-win for Apple and for its customers, and I firmly believe that accessibility…

It's obvious he has to be somewhat concerned about the ROI (or LOI) - if it cost ten times the value of the company to implement accessibility for the blind, it's not going to get implemented.

But the whole point of leadership should be to say "this doesn't bean count out perfectly, but we'll do it".

Re: Another Day Has Come

#93

Post by benoau »

Tim Cook, 2014:

> When we work on making our devices accessible by the blind, I don’t consider the bloody ROI

Tim Cook, 2023:

> Lawyers suggested Cook himself was involved with how the warning to App Store customers would appear, recommending an update to the text that appears when the external links were clicked. In one version, that link warned customers they were “no longer transacting with Apple.” Later, the link was updated to subtly suggest there could be privacy or security risks with purchases made on the web.

https://techcrunch.com/2025/02/24/apple-exec-phil-schiller-t...

Re: Another Day Has Come

#94

Post by _d3p9 »

simonw wrote: post #90
_d3p9 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What "vibes"? I do NOT like John as a person. That has no bearing on whether or not what I'm claiming is true. I was an engineer at both Microsoft and Apple. I have extensive experience at both companies in how we shared information with 3rd parties and how we intentionally cultivated those relationships for specific purposes. I'm currently building an interesting tool for macOS that Claude can't build on its own. I…

The vibes of starting a thread with "You've never met a more conceited asshole", followed by attacking my credibility with "you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about" and "I am supremely disappointed in your comments here" purely because I asked "what's the grift?". It was mainly the "I am supremely disappointed in your comments here" thing that put me off, I didn't see how that was a reasonable response…

> "You've never met a more conceited asshole"

Again, you'd be hard-pressed to find an Apple engineer who has spent any in-person time with John who doesn't have a similar take.

> "you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about"

There is nothing in this thread, aside from your supposed "friend", that makes me believe you've had any direct contact with Apple employees who know anything about John's relationship with Apple. So, in this specific instance, I have no reason to believe you know what you are talking about.

Lastly, I'm not the one who pointed out any grift. My point was that John's relationship to Apple is complicated.

You are communicating with someone who helped build two of the most popular development tools of all time, and yet you continue to act like you are above us, poor HN commenters. I've offered to discuss things with you privately (which is the right thing to do, since I have no intention of hurting Apple), and you've ignored it. Anyone who has access to information and yet refuses to engage is not a journalist.

Re: Another Day Has Come

#95

Post by simonw »

_d3p9 wrote: post #94
simonw wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vibes of starting a thread with "You've never met a more conceited asshole", followed by attacking my credibility with "you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about" and "I am supremely disappointed in your comments here" purely because I asked "what's the grift?". It was mainly the "I am supremely disappointed in your comments here" thing that put me off, I didn't see how that was a reasonable response…

> "You've never met a more conceited asshole" Again, you'd be hard-pressed to find an Apple engineer who has spent any in-person time with John who doesn't have a similar take. > "you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about" There is nothing in this thread, aside from your supposed "friend", that makes me believe you've had any direct contact with Apple employees who know anything about John's relationship…

Would you still like me to email you? I don't have time for a conversation today (mainly because I'm not a journalist and have software I need to ship) but I can contact you if you think it would be productive.

Re: Another Day Has Come

#96

Post by jasonmp85 »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #39
ClawsOnPaws wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blind person using Apple products here, and at least for phones, I agree. I wouldn't say it's exclusively because of iPhone, but a large part of my independence is definitely it. There have been problems, bugs that go unfixed for years, MacOS VoiceOver is quite a disaster even though I do still use and enjoy the platform overall, and anything worth using can be criticized I think. But iOS has so many features built i…

> MacOS VoiceOver is quite a disaster I am curious as to why (definitely not arguing, but I’m not blind, and only use it for testing). I write (Apple) apps to be accessible. I would be grateful for guidance in making them as useful as possible.

[dead]

Re: Another Day Has Come

#97

Post by post-it »

benoau wrote: post #93

Tim Cook, 2014: > When we work on making our devices accessible by the blind, I don’t consider the bloody ROI Tim Cook, 2023: > Lawyers suggested Cook himself was involved with how the warning to App Store customers would appear, recommending an update to the text that appears when the external links were clicked. In one version, that link warned customers they were “no longer transacting with Apple.” Later, the link…

Could you clarify your intended meaning in placing these quotes side by side?

Re: Another Day Has Come

#98

Post by Robdel12 »

jmbwell wrote: post #80
Robdel12 wrote: post #15

> “When we work on making our devices accessible by the blind, I don’t consider the bloody ROI.” I just have to call out how much this impacted my mom’s life. She’s 100% blind and has access because of her iPhone and iPad. Yes she learned JAWSs and literally took classes to do it. Every single windows update has made it so she’d have to retake this class. The iOS updates a rocky but she isn’t literally hamstrung. My…

I struggle not to have a cynical take these days. Of course he cared about the ROI. The ROI is access to an underserved market, a halo effect, a new community of adherents, a new reason for customers to cross the moat into the ecosystem… a modest investment with a durable long term return in multiple categories. I appreciate that it’s a win-win for Apple and for its customers, and I firmly believe that accessibility…

I get what you’re saying but in my 15 year career the ONLY time I was allowed to meaningfully work on accessibility was when visa hired me to remediate visa checkout. And that was literally because a tier 1 bank was going to drop their contract over it.

The ROI Apple will get is when all of us turn 70 and need these features we’re ignoring now

Re: Another Day Has Come

#99

Post by _d3p9 »

simonw wrote: post #95
_d3p9 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "You've never met a more conceited asshole" Again, you'd be hard-pressed to find an Apple engineer who has spent any in-person time with John who doesn't have a similar take. > "you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about" There is nothing in this thread, aside from your supposed "friend", that makes me believe you've had any direct contact with Apple employees who know anything about John's relationship…

Would you still like me to email you? I don't have time for a conversation today (mainly because I'm not a journalist and have software I need to ship) but I can contact you if you think it would be productive.

I am more than happy to have a conversation. I am more than happy to share my experiences with John. I am more than happy to talk about some of the things we did at Apple (and MS) to "help" certain stories reach the right people. We definitely handled John differently than people like David Pogue or Jason Snell.

I'm also happy to show you a demo of my app (built without AI assistance) that Claude has repeatedly failed to replicate because it requires architectural knowledge that SOTA models still aren't able to turn into a comprehensive solution. That is very different from building a web browser from scratch.

If none of that interests you, then no, there is no need to reach out.

Re: Another Day Has Come

#100

Post by cindyllm »

keybored wrote: post #52
ragazzina wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lick a butt that you like and you will not need to work a day in your life.

Very true. :) But I’m afraid the initial phase of tolerated negativity is over for this thread. Now we ought to nurture some corporate positivity. I’ve recently expanded my meditation routine to sending gratitude and love to investors. I call it Mutual Profit Meditation. I visualize myself in a state of lovingly implementing whatever I’m currently doing at work (currently this is internal surveillance software, but t…

[dead]
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