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CATL's new LFP battery can charge from 10 to 98% in less than 7 minutes

arstechnica.com

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Re: CATL's new LFP battery can charge from 10 to 98% in less than 7 minutes

#41

Post by NetMageSCW »

xoa wrote: post #23
phh wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TFA says "After 1,000 fast charges, the battery should retain more than 90 percent of its original state of charge, the company said." I can't really judge whether 1000 charges is a reasonable target for a car, though i think that 1000 fast charges is reasonable. It should probably be able to push to 5000 slow charges and 500 fast charges, which should fit a lot of use-cases.

> I can't really judge whether 1000 charges is a reasonable target for a car I mean, if "charges" is "full charge" and the battery pack does even 200 miles of range then that'd be 200,000 miles right? And more like 250-300+ miles seems like a spreading target as energy density ticks upwards. Honestly that's more than I've ever put on any single individual car or truck I've owned, and well into the point where I'd be…

That’s also a 1,000 fast charges, which shouldn’t be relevant to non-commercial users.

Re: CATL's new LFP battery can charge from 10 to 98% in less than 7 minutes

#42

Post by sowbug »

pjc50 wrote: post #35
DennisP wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That'd be an interesting situation. They'd probably replace their fleet of batteries gradually, so with each swap sometimes you'd get upgraded, sometimes downgraded. Your range and home charging curves would change with the batteries, and Nio would have to update the battery management software when it puts in a different battery type. But over time, you'd get upgraded on average without having to pay for a new batte…

This is in fact the main argument to me why swaps would never work at all, economically: the "state" of the battery is a significant part of the value of the car. Being swapped to a worse one makes you several thousand dollars worse off. It only works in a leasing scenario, and everyone hates those.

I used to own a truck whose fair market value would double, temporarily, whenever I filled the tank.

Re: CATL's new LFP battery can charge from 10 to 98% in less than 7 minutes

#44

Post by cmrdporcupine »

perching_aix wrote: post #4

Saw this yesterday, did not expect the competition around Donut's batteries to heat up this much and this quickly. Even the gravimetric density is fairly close, CATL's claim is 350 Wh/kg, compared to Donut's 400 Wh/kg. The safety and durability (plus no lithium) prospects of Donut's V1 battery are still big though (if the thing is actually real).

Feels weird to pollute a thread about the progress of the largest battery manufacturer in the world that does real science and engineering and massive industrial installations... with a comment about an almost certainly fraudulent fly-by-night company making tiny batteries for motorbikes and not providing real science or published papers to back up their extraordinary claims.

Re: CATL's new LFP battery can charge from 10 to 98% in less than 7 minutes

#45

Post by WarmWash »

chris_va wrote: post #43

The poor grid. The US added basically 0% extra transmission capacity last year. ... Now your local charging station will require a nuclear plant to keep up with ~1MW per car.

The whole fast charge thing is mostly marketing to convert people from "gas car mindset" into getting an EV.

The reality of the situation is that most people who buy an EV will use fast charging only a few times a year. The majority will be charging overnight to recuperate their daily use, which amounts to drawing What would be a strain though is large ultra fast charging stations along major travel corridors. But I'd still wager that those will be overkill for most.

Re: CATL's new LFP battery can charge from 10 to 98% in less than 7 minutes

#46

Post by 0xfaded »

newyankee wrote: post #33
c9lgPZqHNGdC1V1 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anything, Nio battery swap stations would allow car users to swap to newer types of battery as they become available. I say this knowing Nio is one of CATL's most important partners[1]. [1] https://eletric-vehicles.com/catl/catl-calls-nio-an-irreplac...

In a well designed urban environment where cars have space for 2-3 modular batteries with swapping capabilities, I see no reason why taxis etc. need to carry battery payload > 150 km of range needed for local use, which would mean better fuel efficiency as well. Battery swapping done right is integral to this

Sorry, but I giggled at this. A well designed urban environment would have no cars.

Re: CATL's new LFP battery can charge from 10 to 98% in less than 7 minutes

#47

Post by mytailorisrich »

chris_va wrote: post #43

The poor grid. The US added basically 0% extra transmission capacity last year. ... Now your local charging station will require a nuclear plant to keep up with ~1MW per car.

For this sort of fast charging you need the charging station itself to have a large pool of batteries to buffer the energy from the grid and to push it at very high power to cars. Probably still requires a good size connection to the grid.

I think this is unavoidable for any sort of decent charging station from now on, anyway but does require significant investment in infrastructure.

Re: CATL's new LFP battery can charge from 10 to 98% in less than 7 minutes

#49

Post by adrian_b »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #5

Neither article mentions what specs - voltage and kW - are used when doing this very fast charging. Does anyone know? Assuming it's not just the current high-end spec of 800v? It matters because higher current requires heavier equipment to generate it and heavier cables too.

The other company that makes batteries that charge this fast, BYD, also makes appropriate chargers, which use a somewhat higher voltage, of 1000 V. Those chargers can provide up to 1000 A.

Re: CATL's new LFP battery can charge from 10 to 98% in less than 7 minutes

#50

Post by antonkochubey »

xbmcuser wrote: post #15
maeln wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should always take marketing number with a huge grain of salt, so the 10 to 98% in 7 minutes remain to be seen. Also, there is the question of if it lowers the battery lifespan faster than charging at lower power. It is does, there might still be a point in battery swap, especially for public transport systems (for bus). A public transit operator might want to have more battery than vehicle, so that they can rotat…

the life span stat with the current battery tech is mostly useless for a normal car. 300 mile range most people will need to top up 2 times a week 100 times a year 1000 times in 10 years. The battery degradation is not that bad in the first place.

First, with range decreasing, number of charge cycles per mile, and therefore rate of wear, will increase.

Second, average age of car on the road is above 10 years in most countries; and those that drive old cars definitely do not have €26,500* spare to swap their EV's battery for a new one.

*That's what Audi charges here for e-tron 50 battery replacement, which are already starting to fail for many owners

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