Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

San Diego rents declined following surge in supply

kpbs.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 253 posts

Re: San Diego rents declined following surge in supply

#61

Post by throwaway27448 »

epistasis wrote: post #39
throwaway27448 wrote: post #17

What is this country's allergy with public housing? Not pursuing that feels like jumping in water with our hands tied behind our backs

It's not just public housing it's all housing. Even some public housing advocates argue against housing reforms that would make it possible to build public housing! I've been supporting an advocacy group looking to build social housing and at least half the pushback is from anti-housing "tenant advocates" that work for non-profits funded by extremely foundations with boards that are all very wealthy with multiple hom…

Well obviously fuck those guys, but we need to build housing people are going to actually live in

Re: San Diego rents declined following surge in supply

#62

Post by throwaway27448 »

antonvs wrote: post #40
throwaway27448 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Wow are americans actually stupid enough to eat this bait? Yes. That “bait” has been raised to the level of propaganda that people, of some age groups at least (e.g. boomers) have been exposed to their whole lives. It doesn’t help that the US is quite geographically isolated, so most people never get much first-hand experience of anything else.

I agree. But we also can't force people to expose themselves to the rest of the world. I fear it will take hardship to give people incentive to look elsewhere

Re: San Diego rents declined following surge in supply

#63

Post by noosphr »

darksaints wrote: post #60
WillPostForFood wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the alleged people actually said this, and they wanted to "maintain high prices", then why would they oppose more building? If they believed "supply and demand don't work at all", then more supply wouldn't hurt their goal of maintaining high prices.

For the same reason that NIMBYs care so much about urban trees or spotted owls. They don't actually give a shit about them, they just are willing to say or do anything to sabotage the process of increasing housing supply.

Being a NIMBY I want to live in the neighbourhood I bought a house in, not the one someone who can leave with a months notice feels like turning it into.

Re: San Diego rents declined following surge in supply

#64

Post by darksaints »

pydry wrote: post #59
darksaints wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been told repeatedly by people who have a vested interest in maintaining high housing prices that supply and demand don't work at all, ever, for any reason, and high prices are no reason to build more housing. How do I reconcile these facts?!?

If demand for cars skyrockets then you (eventually) get more cars at the same price coz the manufacturer can just make more. If everybody wants to buy up land because "god isnt making it any more" you get less land at an even higher price which makes it even more attractive as a store in value. So no, supply and demand doesnt really work for land the way it works for everything else. Land needs to be taxed a lot to c…

Zoning that reduces buildable footprint and/or height artificially increases demand for land. If the only way to build a home is to buy a 9000 sqft lot, then my demand for land is 9000 sqft. If you can build 18 homes on that same lot, my demand for land is 450 sqft.

Land definitely needs to be taxed, but not without the zoning changes first to allow more to be built on less.

Re: San Diego rents declined following surge in supply

#65

Post by darksaints »

noosphr wrote: post #63
darksaints wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the same reason that NIMBYs care so much about urban trees or spotted owls. They don't actually give a shit about them, they just are willing to say or do anything to sabotage the process of increasing housing supply.

Being a NIMBY I want to live in the neighbourhood I bought a house in, not the one someone who can leave with a months notice feels like turning it into.

Being a homeowner, you get a title to your lot, not your entire neighborhood. You have no legal claim on your neighbor's home. If you want a legal claim on your neighbor's home, join an HOA. Or just buy it.

Re: San Diego rents declined following surge in supply

#66

Post by tptacek »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #56
darksaints wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been told repeatedly by people who have a vested interest in maintaining high housing prices that supply and demand don't work at all, ever, for any reason, and high prices are no reason to build more housing. How do I reconcile these facts?!?

If the alleged people actually said this, and they wanted to "maintain high prices", then why would they oppose more building? If they believed "supply and demand don't work at all", then more supply wouldn't hurt their goal of maintaining high prices.

A former trustee in the inner-ring suburb in which I live owns and manages rental housing throughout the municipality and is a vocal opponent of building new housing, and of the argument that supply and demand functions in the housing market. I could screenshot him for you, but you have no idea who he is, so: just take my word for it, these aren't "alleged" people. They're a major force in local politics around the country, which is where this fight is primarily being fought.

Re: San Diego rents declined following surge in supply

#67

Post by tptacek »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #54
darksaints wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been told repeatedly by people who have a vested interest in maintaining high housing prices that supply and demand don't work at all, ever, for any reason, and high prices are no reason to build more housing. How do I reconcile these facts?!?

If demand picks up because supply increases, you will reach the previous equilibrium even with more supply. It isn’t rocket science, there is a price people are willing to pay to live in SD, and the market will keep gravitating to that price unless demand is somehow limited. The price people are willing to pay can even increase as density makes brings in things (eg culture, job opportunities) that make the city more…

Supply increased, rents declined.

Re: San Diego rents declined following surge in supply

#68

Post by cortesoft »

abdullahkhalids wrote: post #28

Lots of people quoting basic supply and demand. People in the year 1500 could pretty reliably tell you that a rock would fall down if you released it from a height. People would also tell you that if you threw it up and away, it would go up in an arc and fall down. The innovation that Newtown and friends brought about was they made quantitative predictions about the rate at which the rock would fall down, or the arc…

> It would be very hard for policy makers to argue against building more housing, if there was a quantitative model that predicted exact numbers for how much rent fell down given all relevant factors, and this model had been validated over and over again by prediction (not retrodiction).

Policy makers are experts at completely ignoring objective facts, why would this be different?

Re: San Diego rents declined following surge in supply

#70

Post by someperson »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #54
darksaints wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been told repeatedly by people who have a vested interest in maintaining high housing prices that supply and demand don't work at all, ever, for any reason, and high prices are no reason to build more housing. How do I reconcile these facts?!?

If demand picks up because supply increases, you will reach the previous equilibrium even with more supply. It isn’t rocket science, there is a price people are willing to pay to live in SD, and the market will keep gravitating to that price unless demand is somehow limited. The price people are willing to pay can even increase as density makes brings in things (eg culture, job opportunities) that make the city more…

There a lot of desirable areas in a country and a fixed amount of people.

The equilibrium between demand and supply has the supply curve impacted by a whole host of policy choices.

Eg housing is impacted by cost of permitting, regulations, cost of materials and labor etc.

All of these things can be improved by policy.

There's a strong argument that especially infrastructure but housing should be built with people on work visas.

Post reply on HN