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In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

electrek.co

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Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#121

Post by g8oz »

quibono wrote: post #75
cogman10 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A £1500 car is £1500 because it's expected you'll need to replace the engine or transmission pretty soon. That can be up to a £4000 job (£2500 on the low end). And, as it turns out, a brand new 50kWh battery costs around £4000 to manufacture. Used will be cheaper.

With most modern ICE cars everything but the transmission and the engine will fail before those two go out. Also: I don't think that's the usual case. Plenty of sub 2k cars that will happily keep driving for years (I've had 3 such cars). ~700 mark is where you start seeing 300k mile "finish-them-off"-type cars.

I heard plenty of horror stories involving modern cars and their transmissions and engines.

Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#122

Post by NamTaf »

lmm wrote: post #43
cjs_ac wrote: post #2

> And the presence of lower-cost alternatives can force non-Chinese brands to have to compete, rather than sitting on their laurels and gathering profits from expensive land yachts as the competition’s prices are inflated by tariffs. This is why the UK is getting Honda’s super cool Super-N, and the US isn’t. The Honda Super-N EV will also be released in Australia, New Zealand, and other countries in Southeast Asia th…

Is it really that hard to produce an opposite-handed version? That sounds more like a convenient excuse.

Surprisingly. A lot of eg: aircon ducting, placement of stuff in the bonnet, dash configuration, wiring looms, is all -handed. Certainly doable but it’s a significant burden in both design effort and handling of parts/supply chain/inventory which may or may not justify it.

I briefly worked on doing LHD-to-RHD car conversions and the devil was definitely in the detail.

Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#123

Post by storus »

ggm wrote: post #102
storus wrote: post #12

Soon UK will start taxing EVs by distance driven which might offset many EV advantages and make their disadvantages more pronounced.

Vehicles incur costs on the infrastructure as a function of their weight and usage. Petrol engines pay taxes at the pump. There is no tax hypothication in this, it goes to general revenue, but as EV rise, general tax revenue falls. The government has an obligation of sorts, to try and normalise tax collection to the model, and the model is now breaking so they need to implement something, doing nothing is not an opti…

In other words, EVs are used in a bait-and-switch scheme. First promising lower operating costs and negative externalities, then moving to new taxes possibly progressively increasing over time past the ICE taxation, and mandatory built-in surveillance and remote control.

Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#124

Post by laughing_man »

eterm wrote: post #4
martinald wrote: post #3

Not quite. The UK govt has a rolling target of how many EVs are sold as a proportion of all vehicles. The manufacturers get "fined" £15k per ICE car sold over the target. The targets are ramping up rapidly - 22% in 2024, 28% in 2025, 33% in 2026, etc, reaching 80% (AFIAK, keeps changing) in 2030. There's various trading mechanisms in place and what not so it's a bit more complicated than this. So it's far better to s…

The goal is to migrate everyone to EVs, and it sounds like the government incentive mechanism is working, albeit in a roundabout way.

It sounds like ICE buyers are subsidizing EV buyers. The math starts to get ugly as EVs become a larger percentage of the mix. ICEs will be priced out of the market, but there won't be anyone left to subsidize the EVs. In short, it sounds like buying a car is about to get a lot more expensive in the UK.

Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#127

Post by verteu »

CMay wrote: post #116
protocolture wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly chinese manufacturing doesnt look like the market you describe. If anything it looks like from the outside that working conditions, manufacturing processes and technology are all escalating. EV's in particular, their EV industry used to make terrible cars that were basically just chewing up and spitting out low quality batteries with no range. Now they are making cars that I actually want to drive. >Not very…

> EV's in particular, their EV industry used to make terrible cars that were basically just chewing up and spitting out low quality batteries with no range. Now they are making cars that I actually want to drive. The cars used to be awful, but it's not surprising that they improved. I didn't say anything about the quality of the cars. If the CCP didn't have an iron grip on that country, maybe I would eventually think…

> What were we reacting to with Iraq

"The primary rationale for the invasion centered around false claims that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction (WMDs) and that Saddam Hussein was supporting al-Qaeda. The 9/11 Commission concluded in 2004 that there was no credible evidence linking Saddam to al-Qaeda, and no WMD stockpiles were found in Iraq."

Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#128

Post by rootusrootus »

laughing_man wrote: post #124
eterm wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal is to migrate everyone to EVs, and it sounds like the government incentive mechanism is working, albeit in a roundabout way.

It sounds like ICE buyers are subsidizing EV buyers. The math starts to get ugly as EVs become a larger percentage of the mix. ICEs will be priced out of the market, but there won't be anyone left to subsidize the EVs. In short, it sounds like buying a car is about to get a lot more expensive in the UK.

> It sounds like ICE buyers are subsidizing EV buyers.

Given how long we have all been subsidizing ICE buyers, I think it is fair to spread the love around a little.

Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#129

Post by protocolture »

CMay wrote: post #116
protocolture wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly chinese manufacturing doesnt look like the market you describe. If anything it looks like from the outside that working conditions, manufacturing processes and technology are all escalating. EV's in particular, their EV industry used to make terrible cars that were basically just chewing up and spitting out low quality batteries with no range. Now they are making cars that I actually want to drive. >Not very…

> EV's in particular, their EV industry used to make terrible cars that were basically just chewing up and spitting out low quality batteries with no range. Now they are making cars that I actually want to drive. The cars used to be awful, but it's not surprising that they improved. I didn't say anything about the quality of the cars. If the CCP didn't have an iron grip on that country, maybe I would eventually think…

You said logical reasons but all you did was repeat standard anti marxist rhetoric a few times. Nations run on internal logic, like all things. Chinas demonstrated interests dont include me. the USA on the other hand, has a history of being unpredictable and invading without any real intent or purpose.

You appeal to history but just compare all the aggressive wars started by the USA vs China since WW2. Tell me who to be more scared of.

China hasn't even done much more than pay lip service to Marx since Deng anyway. They are just the most stable, reliable capitalist superpower right now.

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