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In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

electrek.co

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Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#101

Post by rootusrootus »

dzonga wrote: post #67

> Consumers accept that they can pay more for a better product, so when you compare a Model 3 to an ICE BMW 3 series, and they’re similar in price, but the Model 3 offers better technology and drive characteristics, then on balance you’re getting a better deal with the Model 3. statements like these are what turn some people away. cz they're not sincere. you can easily compare the costs between models within a manufa…

Tesla has been cutting features, too. You can't even get lane keeping anymore unless you pay $99/mo for FSD. Lane keeping is a basic feature even available on the base model of some economy cars, so for the supposedly 'premium' Tesla to drop it is an interesting choice.

Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#102

Post by ggm »

storus wrote: post #12

Soon UK will start taxing EVs by distance driven which might offset many EV advantages and make their disadvantages more pronounced.

Vehicles incur costs on the infrastructure as a function of their weight and usage. Petrol engines pay taxes at the pump. There is no tax hypothication in this, it goes to general revenue, but as EV rise, general tax revenue falls. The government has an obligation of sorts, to try and normalise tax collection to the model, and the model is now breaking so they need to implement something, doing nothing is not an option.

It MAY make their disadvantages more pronounced, it MAY off set the specific EV advantage of operational cost compared to ICE. But, ICE are not some ground zero untaxed state, and other tax choices will alter the relative preferences and advantages AT THE TIME.

You can't compare tax now to tax "then" and argue "then" was fairer, if the tax then was on Horses.

Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#103

Post by m463 »

throwaway85825 wrote: post #84
sigio wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Local government can quickly change that, if they get their act together. Here in the Hague, there's literally thousands of public chargers available on the city's residential streets. Coupled with the fact that the charging-price is city-mandated at a fixed rate (currently around 35ct/kwh), this gives a perfectly fine solution for most people. (I can charge at home, for 20ct/kwh currently, so that's even nicer)

35ct/kwh is highway robbery.

would be nice if california had such discounted prices... :)

Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#105

Post by rootusrootus »

tshaddox wrote: post #54
muyuu wrote: post #45

The treatment of our betters regarding "nudged" electrification is borderline misanthropic. For people with a garage or a driveway who can charge at home, EVs are overwhelmingly a better option. The problem is that large swathes of the population are outside of that and you're making their lives miserable by punishing ICE car ownership. Meanwhile, adoption numbers are thrown about ignoring that for those in optimal c…

> The problem is that large swathes of the population are outside of that and you're making their lives miserable by punishing ICE cars ownership. It's obviously not ideal to have an EV if you can't regularly charge at home or at work, but "making their lives miserable" seems like a bit of a stretch. Instead of spending 5 minutes a week filling up at the gas station, you'll spent 30 minutes a week at an EV charging s…

> you'll spent 30 minutes a week at an EV charging station.

And for a lot of people that can be 30 minutes at a grocery store where they were going to be for 30 minutes anyway. The nice thing about using the grid for fuel is that we have way more flexibility to refuel anywhere we want.

Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#106

Post by rootusrootus »

tshaddox wrote: post #55
barbazoo wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or at least to have the inferior product at a lower price.

From what I've seen, I have no reason to expect that a cheap new Chinese EV sold in the U.S. would be meaningfully lower quality than a cheap new American car.

Conversely, I have no reason to expect that a new Chinese EV sold in the US would be meaningfully cheaper than a new American car. At least not to the extent that China fans are dreaming about. That just is not how markets work.

Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#107

Post by Jblx2 »

throwaway85825 wrote: post #90
Jblx2 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There will undoubtedly be a death spiral of sorts when it comes to gas stations, refineries, etc. where they become fewer and farther between as less people buy fuel. And that makes it more expensive and inconvenient, so more people buy EVs, which in turn...

Is AVgas in a death spiral? It's survived as a niche product for a long time.

Does anyone have reliable data on the number locations selling avgas in say, the U.S. compared to the number of locations selling automobile grade gasoline?

Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#108

Post by shimman »

uni_baconcat wrote: post #96
cpursley wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing lazier than a whataboutism claim. If we're okay with Chinese made phones and other electronics, then let's give their cheap EVs a chance instead of worrying about a plethora of other hallucinated *isms. Anyways, if the Chinese want to hurt "US" they have plenty of other ways to go about it.

China is still banning Teslas from driving near government buildings and leaders' motorcades.

China is smart and recognizes known threats as threats. In the US we give them quasi government positions where they inflicted massive damage causing millions of senseless deaths.

Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#109

Post by DangitBobby »

pstuart wrote: post #71
sega_sai wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that there is not enough infrastructure for EVs. If you can't charge at home (e.g. you live in a flat), it is hard to live with an EV and it's much more expensive than the ICE.

Another problem is that fuel taxes are a reasonably equitable means of paying for the roads, and EVs don't have that -- the closest would be vehicle miles * weight or some such.

Fuel taxes don't seem to take into account the quartic scaling of damage by vehicle weight on pavement.

Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#110

Post by muyuu »

cameronh90 wrote: post #94
muyuu wrote: post #45

The treatment of our betters regarding "nudged" electrification is borderline misanthropic. For people with a garage or a driveway who can charge at home, EVs are overwhelmingly a better option. The problem is that large swathes of the population are outside of that and you're making their lives miserable by punishing ICE car ownership. Meanwhile, adoption numbers are thrown about ignoring that for those in optimal c…

I have an ICE and don't feel like I'm being punished? It's exactly the same as it's always been. If anything, we're still benefitting from ridiculous subsidies and driving an ICE should be a lot more expensive than it is. The reason for the EV nudging is it's a chicken and egg problem. The government doesn't want to run a national charging network themselves for obvious reasons, but private investors don't want to bu…

Far from ULEZ/CAZ areas I guess?
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