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In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

electrek.co

71–80 of 231 posts

Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#71
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal is to migrate everyone to EVs, and it sounds like the government incentive mechanism is working, albeit in a roundabout way.

The problem is that there is not enough infrastructure for EVs. If you can't charge at home (e.g. you live in a flat), it is hard to live with an EV and it's much more expensive than the ICE.

Another problem is that fuel taxes are a reasonably equitable means of paying for the roads, and EVs don't have that -- the closest would be vehicle miles * weight or some such.

Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#72

Meanwhile Ford’s CEO said that if Chinese EVs are allowed into USA it will destroy the US automakers. He is not even hiding the fact US automakers make a more expensive inferior product, but that US consumers should not be allowed have the superior one.

Or at least to have the inferior product at a lower price.

The big 3 absolutely have an inferior product. Just rode in a new gas Cherry Tiggo, I'd compare it to a Hyundai in terms of value/features, but even a bit better. No American car in that class comes even close. And I rode in one 10 years ago (Tiggo), they have come a very very long way.

Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly typed out on a Chinese made phone...

Whataboutism is not helpful.

There's nothing lazier than a whataboutism claim. If we're okay with Chinese made phones and other electronics, then let's give their cheap EVs a chance instead of worrying about a plethora of other hallucinated *isms. Anyways, if the Chinese want to hurt "US" they have plenty of other ways to go about it.

Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is a 50kWh battery in a car is worth more as a battery than a typical £1500 car. The lowest end of the market won’t have electric cars unless the batteries are shagged (early Leafs) And given how insanely cheap petrol is (15p a mile, so £450 for a low mileage runaround) the savings even if electric was free and they weren’t introducing a 3p/mile charge isn’t there.

A £1500 car is £1500 because it's expected you'll need to replace the engine or transmission pretty soon. That can be up to a £4000 job (£2500 on the low end). And, as it turns out, a brand new 50kWh battery costs around £4000 to manufacture. Used will be cheaper.

With most modern ICE cars everything but the transmission and the engine will fail before those two go out. Also: I don't think that's the usual case. Plenty of sub 2k cars that will happily keep driving for years (I've had 3 such cars). ~700 mark is where you start seeing 300k mile "finish-them-off"-type cars.

Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whataboutism is not helpful.

There's nothing lazier than a whataboutism claim. If we're okay with Chinese made phones and other electronics, then let's give their cheap EVs a chance instead of worrying about a plethora of other hallucinated *isms. Anyways, if the Chinese want to hurt "US" they have plenty of other ways to go about it.

> There's nothing lazier than a whataboutism claim.

You're right, I guess it is only just slightly more lazy than writing the whataboutism.

> if the Chinese want to hurt "US" they have plenty of other ways to go about it.

Another what aboutism...

Why should those other national governments move away from Microsoft, the U.S. has other ways to hurt those countries.

Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing lazier than a whataboutism claim. If we're okay with Chinese made phones and other electronics, then let's give their cheap EVs a chance instead of worrying about a plethora of other hallucinated *isms. Anyways, if the Chinese want to hurt "US" they have plenty of other ways to go about it.

> There's nothing lazier than a whataboutism claim. You're right, I guess it is only just slightly more lazy than writing the whataboutism. > if the Chinese want to hurt "US" they have plenty of other ways to go about it. Another what aboutism... Why should those other national governments move away from Microsoft, the U.S. has other ways to hurt those countries.

Then drive some Schitty Chevy, what do I care. The rest of us need reliable affordable transportation that won't boil the oceans over. The Chinese are willing to make it, that is a good thing (+ they haven't bombed anyone for quite some time to boot).

Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New EVs become used EVs that poorer people can afford. Poor people don't buy new cars. New EVs being expensive is not a poor person problem.

The problem is a 50kWh battery in a car is worth more as a battery than a typical £1500 car. The lowest end of the market won’t have electric cars unless the batteries are shagged (early Leafs) And given how insanely cheap petrol is (15p a mile, so £450 for a low mileage runaround) the savings even if electric was free and they weren’t introducing a 3p/mile charge isn’t there.

[deleted]

Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#79
post #31
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There will undoubtedly be a death spiral of sorts when it comes to gas stations, refineries, etc. where they become fewer and farther between as less people buy fuel. And that makes it more expensive and inconvenient, so more people buy EVs, which in turn...

Death spiral to gas stations? why? EV cars need to charge somewhere (and on long trip it can’t be at home) and people need to take a break and grab a coffee sometime too. They will change, sure, but certainly not die. Refineries will be fewer but we do need another products from them also.

I'm using the definitions:

- Gas Station = retail outlet that sells and dispenses gasoline and other petroleum-based fuel products

- Charging station = place to charge your EV

Could be an interesting long bet. Will the number of retail locations selling gasoline in the UK in the year 2045 be higher or lower than in 2026?

Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#80
post #44

"thanks to Chinese competition". More like anti-competitive practices. They can force down Chinese wages to keep labor costs down. They can require companies involved in component technologies to share their IP in order to do business in China, then replicate it and subsidize the hell out of it to push them not just out of China, but out of business globally. Then subsidize the whole final vertically integrated manuf…

Honestly chinese manufacturing doesnt look like the market you describe. If anything it looks like from the outside that working conditions, manufacturing processes and technology are all escalating. EV's in particular, their EV industry used to make terrible cars that were basically just chewing up and spitting out low quality batteries with no range. Now they are making cars that I actually want to drive.

>Not very free market. It's basically military and intelligence budget combined. If you can hurt auto manufacturing, you further consolidate manufacturing inside China. Then if you can get people to pay for you to spy on them through their own cars, that's well spent intelligence budget. If you reduce the portion of global manufacturing outside of China, you reduce the amount of manufacturing that can quickly pivot to wartime production like we saw during World War 2.

The most dangerous nation on the planet, that threatens everyones national security is the USA. And thankfully we averted this risk by basically demolishing their car industry. Its honestly asias gift to the planet. China cant project power anywhere nearly as well as the US, so on balance, they are vastly the more preferable partner for this data.

>I'm glad that we still have sane enough people in the US that we ban these obvious and transparently bad things.

Lmao. Freedomburgerland summed up in one sentence.

>Hopefully people don't still think that China's green energy initiatives are about the climate.

Chinas green energy initiatives are both soft power, and sustainability for a massive population. They only care about the environment as far as it impacts on them economically.

>don't let that blind you to the legitimate questions around China's motivations.

China is the most stable superpower we have. We are right to be suspicious, but honestly the century of American humiliation is playing out pretty well for them without them having to do much of anything.

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