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In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

electrek.co

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Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#61

Post by hermitcrab »

Devasta wrote: post #21
nickserv wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah they sold off pretty much their entire motor industry to the Germans (Mini, Bentley, ..), Chinese (Lotus) and Indians (Jaguar, Land Rover). Typical case of short sighted capitalism.

I don't know, Stephen King couldn't write anything that matches the horror that was the management of UK car companies in the second half of the 20th century. British Leyland was a disaster from start to finish.

British cars in the 70s and 80s were shockingly bad. The Austin Metro and Allegro spring to mind.

Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#62

Post by cogman10 »

hdgvhicv wrote: post #37
triceratops wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New EVs become used EVs that poorer people can afford. Poor people don't buy new cars. New EVs being expensive is not a poor person problem.

The problem is a 50kWh battery in a car is worth more as a battery than a typical £1500 car. The lowest end of the market won’t have electric cars unless the batteries are shagged (early Leafs) And given how insanely cheap petrol is (15p a mile, so £450 for a low mileage runaround) the savings even if electric was free and they weren’t introducing a 3p/mile charge isn’t there.

A £1500 car is £1500 because it's expected you'll need to replace the engine or transmission pretty soon. That can be up to a £4000 job (£2500 on the low end).

And, as it turns out, a brand new 50kWh battery costs around £4000 to manufacture. Used will be cheaper.

Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#63

Post by hunterpayne »

sega_sai wrote: post #13
eterm wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal is to migrate everyone to EVs, and it sounds like the government incentive mechanism is working, albeit in a roundabout way.

The problem is that there is not enough infrastructure for EVs. If you can't charge at home (e.g. you live in a flat), it is hard to live with an EV and it's much more expensive than the ICE.

The problem isn't infrastructure. Its the amount of Li in reserve.

Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#64

Post by hunterpayne »

testing22321 wrote: post #24

Meanwhile Ford’s CEO said that if Chinese EVs are allowed into USA it will destroy the US automakers. He is not even hiding the fact US automakers make a more expensive inferior product, but that US consumers should not be allowed have the superior one.

No, its because the Chinese subsidize the costs of those cars. Say I live in a country that will pay me $50k to build a car. It costs me say, $55K to build the car which I now sell for $60K. How you do you, in a country that pays you nothing to build cars, compete? This is an extreme example but its what is happening here (just will different and smaller numbers).

Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#65

Post by XorNot »

hdgvhicv wrote: post #37
triceratops wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New EVs become used EVs that poorer people can afford. Poor people don't buy new cars. New EVs being expensive is not a poor person problem.

The problem is a 50kWh battery in a car is worth more as a battery than a typical £1500 car. The lowest end of the market won’t have electric cars unless the batteries are shagged (early Leafs) And given how insanely cheap petrol is (15p a mile, so £450 for a low mileage runaround) the savings even if electric was free and they weren’t introducing a 3p/mile charge isn’t there.

Battery prices are still falling though, it's just demand is enormous. But I works fully expect China to start having "compatible replacement packs" being built once the volume is there to support it.

A logical future market is battery-refurbished EVs, just a question of where the crossover point is.

Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#66

Post by muyuu »

Barrin92 wrote: post #59
muyuu wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except availability of chargers is spotty in most of the country, and charging prices so high that the running expenses are considerably higher. Not even considering insurance, which is also a killer. Been there. Second hand EVs devaluation is not a product of anecdote. It reflects the current state of the market. They are a different product and they're great at what they do. In fact, for those in the market for the…

>Except availability of chargers is spotty in most of the country, the UK is a small country. The average British driver drives 20-30km per day. One full EV charge almost gets you through England South to North. If you're putting a bunch of charging stations next to workplaces for people to charge once or twice per week that's going to cover most drivers.

What do you suggest? That people spend most of their time on the road going to and from (very expensive) chargers across the country? That is such a prospect it makes our decrepit railways look good.

Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#67

Post by dzonga »

> Consumers accept that they can pay more for a better product, so when you compare a Model 3 to an ICE BMW 3 series, and they’re similar in price, but the Model 3 offers better technology and drive characteristics, then on balance you’re getting a better deal with the Model 3.

statements like these are what turn some people away. cz they're not sincere.

you can easily compare the costs between models within a manufacturer - BMW ICE version vs Electric version

& on a head to head basis the old guard of auto makers e.g BMW, Mercedes make better vehicles than Tesla.

Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#68

Post by znkynz »

tshaddox wrote: post #49
sega_sai wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that there is not enough infrastructure for EVs. If you can't charge at home (e.g. you live in a flat), it is hard to live with an EV and it's much more expensive than the ICE.

You can't fill up your gas tank at home or at work, which is presumably where a significant portion of EV drivers charge their cars.

There are many, many homes in the UK with no garaging, where cars are parked in non-reserved spaces on the street overnight.

Re: In the UK, EVs are cheaper than petrol cars, thanks to Chinese competition

#70

Post by cpursley »

hermitcrab wrote: post #61
Devasta wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, Stephen King couldn't write anything that matches the horror that was the management of UK car companies in the second half of the 20th century. British Leyland was a disaster from start to finish.

British cars in the 70s and 80s were shockingly bad. The Austin Metro and Allegro spring to mind.

What's funny is the new owners of MG make a pretty nice car (reliable and good looking): https://www.mgcyberster.co.uk
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