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Framework Laptop 13 Pro

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Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro

#261

Post by vizzier »

rafram wrote: post #157
Lammy wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dumb comparison, because buying a Framework is a single transaction where I exchange money for a computer, and buying a Mac is an entrypoint to “The Ecosystem” where Apple wants to squeeze me for $ /month forever. Peep the margins on “Products” versus “Services” and you will understand what Apple's incentives are and why just selling me hardware isn't it: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/fy2026-q1/FY26_Q1_Consol..…

It's really not, though. You don't even need an Apple account to set up a Mac. I pay $3/month to Apple in exchange for full-quality backups of decades of photos, but I could easily stop doing that, or switch to another provider, if I wanted to. (I don't, because $3/month is extremely fair for what I get.) I've never paid for any other Apple service and likely never will. The OS never, ever nags me about services - co…

> or switch to another provider

Can you though? Its been a few years since I've been on apple, but being able to get anything but icloud native support in other apps was basically non-existent. Compared to android where it gives you a plethora of choice out of the box.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro

#262

Post by speedgoose »

einpoklum wrote: post #199
loloquwowndueo wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d prefer a non-touchscreen. Touchscreen does add about 200g of weight. Is that likely to be an option?

Exactly. Why would I touch my screen? My hands are on the keyboard, I'm not lifting them.

Developing applications for touch devices is much nicer on a laptop with a touchscreen.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro

#263

Post by cge »

reaperducer wrote: post #247
cge wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's so cool that every individual upgrade they did here can be hot-swapped back to the older designs. That's a huge extra lift that they didn't have to do. Unfortunately, as is usual for them (edit: and it makes sense; I'm not blaming them), the parts and upgrade kits aren't available for ordering (edit: or pre-ordering) yet, and likely won't be for some time, until the actual laptops are shipping. But yes, this is…

Unfortunately, as is usual for them, the parts and upgrade kits aren't available for ordering yet, and likely won't be for some time, until the actual laptops are shipping. It's unfortunate that they can't sell you something that hasn't been manufactured? That doesn't yet exist? HN is really scraping the bottom of the barrel for things to complain about.

I had meant they aren't available even for pre-ordering, and likely won't be until the laptops are either regularly shipping rather than shipping in numbered batches, or are on a high-numbered batch. This could be months after the actual laptops start shipping. This is a process I've been through a few times at this point. It also wasn't really meant as a substantial complaint about Framework, and more just a mention of an understandable annoyance: it makes sense that they'd prioritize getting full laptops shipped.

On the other hand, nrp, since you're likely to be in this thread: if you had pre-orders and/or batched shipments of parts/upgrade kits, I would likely be paying a deposit or even the full price today, rather than ordering in a few months. Even if that meant ordering a full upgrade kit with a new display, but getting the upgrade sooner, I'd probably still go for it.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro

#264

Post by voxadam »

varispeed wrote: post #179

> up to 64GB of LPCAMM2 LPDDR5X That's a non-starter. Why not 128GB or push boundary for 256GB?

> Why not 128GB or push boundary for 256GB?

As I understand it, 64 GB modules are largest LPCAMM2 modules yet released with 96 GB being announced only a couple months ago. 128 GB might be possible on the Ultra 5 325 once either sufficiently large LPCAMM2 modules have been release or if the motherboard was redesigned to support dual LPCAMM2 modules, the Ultra X7 358H and Ultra X9 388H only support 96 GB. Support for 256 GB would likely require a desktop processor, or a redesign from Intel to support a quarter terabyte of memory on a mobile processor.

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/245720/...

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/245527/...

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/245526/...

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro

#265

Post by rafram »

Lammy wrote: post #146
afavour wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buying a Mac is also a single transaction. Yes, they have lots of other services they want to sell you on but you're in no way obliged to take them up on it.

I don't want to use a computer whose greatest aspiration is to be a sales funnel even if I am personally strong-willed enough to say no when nagged.

macOS seriously never nags you about services. Service nags aren't classy. You can credibly accuse Apple of plenty of things, but having a lack of class isn't one.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro

#266

Post by vizzier »

rjh29 wrote: post #172
matthewkayin wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it is a valid comparison, and assuming the quality is close to par with a macbook, I think it would be worth the extra cost. I'm someone who doesn't want to go through a new laptop every other year. I've got an M1 mac right now. I've owned it for 5 years and could easily see myself getting another 5 years of use out of it. Only problem is, the hard drive is small, I can't upgrade it. It only has 16 GB RAM, whic…

I use thinkpad (T14s now, X1 Carbon and X220 in the past). The hard drive is just m.sata and very easy to upgrade. You really can't upgrade the disk on a Mac?

not since like 2015, they're soldered on to the mainboard

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro

#268

Post by charlieboardman »

From what I can ascertain, the new bigger battery is incompatible with the old chassis: https://frame.work/products/pro-battery-74wh

"This product can only be used with both the Framework Laptop 13 Pro Bottom Cover and Framework Laptop 13 Pro Input Cover."

I applaud that the mainboard and keyboard are backwards compatible, but I don't think the pro is quite as backwards compatible as some are thinking

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro

#269

Post by babylon5 »

vizzier wrote: post #243
babylon5 wrote: post #228

Nice upgrades, but no mention of ECC RAM, the single thing that I wanted from an upgrade for a decade? Why do chip makers refuse to take our money? :-P A few years ago we were told only "Pro" parts have ECC: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37828168

to be fair, your money isn't as good as VC money for RAM at the moment

Are Nvidia using ecc ram? If not this should mean it is less supply constrained than regular ram.

Re: Framework Laptop 13 Pro

#270

Post by jeffbee »

Rohansi wrote: post #165
jeffbee wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's just a vertical integration thing. They know what's in the machine and they can make sure that their suspend path puts every peripheral to sleep. Linux has no idea what's in your machine and there may be some device in there somewhere that freaks out if the machine goes to sleep without saying goodnight. Even a 50mW draw will destroy the suspend power budget. Chromebooks have similar vertical integration…

How does soldering memory help reduce sleep power consumption vs. using a socket? What is different other than how they are physically connected to the board?

It's not the form factor itself that is the problem. LPDDR is more efficient for various reasons and cannot be on a DIMM. It physically will not work with a socket. That is the problem that LP-CAMM solves: LPDDR but still removable.
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