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As oceans warm, great white sharks are overheating

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Re: As oceans warm, great white sharks are overheating

#101

Post by sailingparrot »

freediddy wrote: post #68

No they aren't. They will move to different locations like they always have been for the past 400 million years. Sharks are older than trees, they can adapt to climate change better than anything alive right now.

What an inane comment that shows how unqualified you are to talk about this.

Shark is a group, great white shark is a species. The fact that the group has been alive for 400M years has no bearing on whether the currently alive species can actually adapt and survive. Some very likely will, the great white might not, that’s what the article is about.

Re: As oceans warm, great white sharks are overheating

#102

Post by throwanem »

dd8601fn wrote: post #100
throwanem wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are responsible for the reasonably foreseeable consequences of your own actions. I'm not going to point to a TV show about alcoholism to substantiate that. You don't need me to. It is also why manslaughter, though a lesser crime than murder, remains a crime.

You seem to have reduced the very thesis of what I was saying to the point where you excised it entirely. “Don’t get shitty drunk and then drive” fits just fine. “Be a technology person who doesn’t use technology because our power isn’t green.” potentially falls on the far side of that line of personal responsibility.

You don't sound too confident.

Re: As oceans warm, great white sharks are overheating

#103

Post by Quarrelsome »

throwanem wrote: post #96
Quarrelsome wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what's to guilt? None of us asked to be born into this. Most of us are only on part of a bell curve and often nowhere near the top. I lived for a while with friends and their commendable eco-mindedness included ideas like not flushing the toilet when it was just piss. Meanwhile the neighbour down the street leaves their hose running while washing their car out back, while popping inside to answer their front door. Wh…

You will live to regret your moral cowardice. Specifically, you'll regret the wrong choices it leads you to make. The guilt you feel now is a warning. Don't stay lazy, or that guilt will eventually be augmented by shame.

All we can do is aim to be better, to aim to be perfect is putting obstacles in your own path for your own smug sense of satisfaction, while the world still burns the same.

Unless you can change the many, including those most intransigent, you have to respect that just changing yourself, is something you only do for yourself. I don't see how its "moral cowardice" for me to own a car so I can ferry around my 84 year old father, so he doesn't have to drive, or to flush my toilet after every time I piss.

Re: As oceans warm, great white sharks are overheating

#104

Post by sebmellen »

someuser54541 wrote: post #91
sebmellen wrote: post #48

Time to make sunsets. https://makesunsets.com . I don’t see a way out except for stratospheric aerosol injection.

This might be the worst idea I've ever seen. I'm glad they are so interested in reducing the effects of global warming - that's fantastic - but they are literally purposefully releasing a toxic, major air pollutant into the air to create in their own words "clouds of dust" for the purposes of reflecting sunlight. Sure, there might be a slight cooling effect but who in their right mind could possibly think this is a g…

https://www.cremieux.xyz/p/from-pollution-to-solution

I understand your concern but I don’t believe the impact is as severe as you think.

Re: As oceans warm, great white sharks are overheating

#105

Post by dd8601fn »

throwanem wrote: post #102
dd8601fn wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to have reduced the very thesis of what I was saying to the point where you excised it entirely. “Don’t get shitty drunk and then drive” fits just fine. “Be a technology person who doesn’t use technology because our power isn’t green.” potentially falls on the far side of that line of personal responsibility.

You don't sound too confident.

In what?

Re: As oceans warm, great white sharks are overheating

#106

Post by Timon3 »

tracker1 wrote: post #79

As sad as these things are... one needs to also accept, that as capable as we are of changing our environments, from transportation, to air conditioning, we do not control all the things. We have and continue to over-fish in a lot of places, and I have deep concerns over farmed fish and the impact of less than natural foods on our own health. A lot of the changes to the waters is well outside human control... there's…

Of course this is inside human control - we are directly responsible for what's happening! Unless you're one of the people who are willingly putting their head in the sand, I don't understand how it makes sense to act like this is still in question.

Re: As oceans warm, great white sharks are overheating

#107

Post by freediddy »

sailingparrot wrote: post #101
freediddy wrote: post #68

No they aren't. They will move to different locations like they always have been for the past 400 million years. Sharks are older than trees, they can adapt to climate change better than anything alive right now.

What an inane comment that shows how unqualified you are to talk about this. Shark is a group, great white shark is a species. The fact that the group has been alive for 400M years has no bearing on whether the currently alive species can actually adapt and survive. Some very likely will, the great white might not, that’s what the article is about.

Another alarmist who believes "this time it's different!" with no knowledge about how climate has changed over the past 400 million years. You probably thought when Big Basin burned that it would never recover, meanwhile it started to recover in months. People who doubt nature's resilience are ALWAYS wrong.

Re: As oceans warm, great white sharks are overheating

#108

Post by simonsarris »

acuozzo wrote: post #49
bilsbie wrote: post #36

My main skepticism (Shark lover here btw!) Is that sharks are an ancient species and they’ve survived way warmer oceans even relatively recently. For example the Medieval Warm Period Sargasso Sea surface temperatures were 1°C warmer than 400 years ago, and Pacific Ocean water temperatures were 0.65°C warmer than the decades before.

Were there any periods in which the rate of change in warming was the same or greater?

Younger Dryas, definitely. It very likely abruptly stopped progress in human agriculture, before allowing it to abruptly restart again. Makes the Medieval warm period and little ice age look like a joke. Two massive shifts that punctuate the timeline of early human prehistory.

> The Younger Dryas (YD, Greenland Stadial GS-1) was a period in Earth's geologic history that occurred circa 12,900 to 11,700 years Before Present (BP). It is primarily known for the sudden or "abrupt" cooling in the Northern Hemisphere, when the North Atlantic Ocean cooled and annual air temperatures decreased by ~3 °C (5 °F) over North America, 2–6 °C (4–11 °F) in Europe and up to 10 °C (18 °F) in Greenland, in a few decades

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas

Re: As oceans warm, great white sharks are overheating

#109

Post by Geee »

vivzkestrel wrote: post #6

- stupid question - if everyone on the entire planet went 100% vegan from tomorrow, will carbon emissions really go down by 60%?

Animals or humans don't cause any net emissions, because the same carbon was captured from the atmosphere in the first place. No new carbon is added. Also, the same amount of methane is broken down in the atmosphere as is created. Increasing co2 is only possible by burning fossil fuels.

Re: As oceans warm, great white sharks are overheating

#110

Post by someuser54541 »

sebmellen wrote: post #104
someuser54541 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might be the worst idea I've ever seen. I'm glad they are so interested in reducing the effects of global warming - that's fantastic - but they are literally purposefully releasing a toxic, major air pollutant into the air to create in their own words "clouds of dust" for the purposes of reflecting sunlight. Sure, there might be a slight cooling effect but who in their right mind could possibly think this is a g…

https://www.cremieux.xyz/p/from-pollution-to-solution I understand your concern but I don’t believe the impact is as severe as you think.

I appreciate the link, however it should be noted that piece was written by the co-founder of that same company. They do seem to be evidence driven but let's not pretend there's not some degree of bias towards the solutions his company is proposing.

Additionally, that article focuses almost solely on the chances of producing acid rain, which actually is another issue and not the one I was first concerned with. That piece talks about "redistributing" SO2 from the troposphere to the stratosphere which is a neat concept but a.) that's purely theoretical, and b.) that's not what they are doing or trying to do anyway.

It could be argued that air pollution has a greater and more devastating effect on the everyday lives of people alive today then global warming does now or will in the foreseeable future. In my city it was estimated that more than 1 in every ~16 deaths is related to air pollution, and the air here isn't nearly as bad as it is in other cities. Worldwide, UNICEF estimates nearly 2,000 deaths under 5 years of age per day from air pollution [0]. Annual deaths worldwide are estimated at 8+ million yearly across all age groups. Making that problem worse by any measure in the hope of producing a cooling effect that is a fraction of a fraction of a degree is not worth it at all and at least in my opinion is a net-negative.

[0]: https://ceh.unicef.org/spotlight-risk/air-pollution

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