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Original GrapheneOS responses to WIRED fact checker

discuss.grapheneos.org

101–110 of 343 posts

Re: Original GrapheneOS responses to WIRED fact checker

#101

I love GrapheneOS and I use it daily for more than 2 years. However, and as Louis Rossmann pointed out in one of his videos, they really need to work on the "defensiveness" and "rants" of their communication. Even when they are 99% right most of the time, they sometimes don't come as mature and professional.

> However, and as Louis Rossmann pointed out in one of his videos, they really need to work on the "defensiveness" and "rants" of their communication

Not that I disagree but Louis Rossmann giving someone advice to tone down the rants is ironic.

Re: Original GrapheneOS responses to WIRED fact checker

#102

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> Something along the lines of "you know regardless of whether or not you're factually correct, these public attacks on other people companies are really bad for your image" Sometimes they aren't even factually correct and get a bit upset about it when called out. Anyways, I have gotten the same impression and these seem like red flags to me as well. Which is why I'd take everything in that response with a mountain o…

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Re: Original GrapheneOS responses to WIRED fact checker

#103
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Graphene is not a consumer brand and they do not intend to be a consumer brand. They do one thing: make as secure a phone OS as they can. That’s it. If you’re expecting them to do anything in a friendly way, it ain’t gonna happen, that’s not who they are or what they do. That will absolutely limit their scope and reach, but it also allows them to focus on the one thing they’re trying to do without making compromises.…

> They do one thing: make as secure a phone OS as they can. That’s it. If you’re expecting them to do anything in a friendly way, it ain’t gonna happen, that’s not who they are or what they do. These things are not mutually exclusive: You can make a great technical product while being friendly. You can make a great technical product while not being friendly. You can make a compromised or flawed technical product whil…

As a community organizer for systems programmers: welcome to my world! I've finally made some headway after a decade, helped by the mass layoff apocalypse. (Turns out social skills help you stay solvent.)

Re: Original GrapheneOS responses to WIRED fact checker

#105
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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One common personality disorder I see is being extremely defensive when encountering any discussion of human psychology. This comes from a deep psychological fragility. Classic OAD (Obvious Asshole Disorder)

You couldn't even bother to google an actual disorder! Bah, you insult me :)

Re: Original GrapheneOS responses to WIRED fact checker

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They "handle the business" while someone else does 99% of the actual work, then ask to split 50/50. As a response, Micay decided to destroy the update signing keys for all the CopperheadOS devices out in the wild. Resulting in financial damages to Donaldson. Hardly a level-headed response, even if you disagree about the financial share of something.

> Hardly a level-headed response, even if you disagree about the financial share of something According to the linked responses, the keys were not deleted because of disagreement over financial share, but over how the keys were to be used (in particular, in potentially dangerous security-wise ways), for which he did not want personal responsibility over (the keys belonged and used by him even before that project)

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Re: Original GrapheneOS responses to WIRED fact checker

#107

I love GrapheneOS and I use it daily for more than 2 years. However, and as Louis Rossmann pointed out in one of his videos, they really need to work on the "defensiveness" and "rants" of their communication. Even when they are 99% right most of the time, they sometimes don't come as mature and professional.

My gut feel is that Micay is genuine, and obviously also very defensive.

At least some of the defensiveness is warranted. Maybe most of it. Regardless, it comes across in most GrapheneOS communications, and it's sometimes counterproductive.

A related issue, which I'm sure Micay can appreciate, is that users of GrapheneOS tend to be cautious, and increasingly will want to know why the project should be trusted, now that it is popular and on a lot of radars of adversaries.

(For example, hypothetical scenario that's plausible, given the incentives: State actor (e.g., RU, US, CN) or organized crime group long-con starts with a public harassment campaign of Micay. Followed by sleeper volunteers taking more control of the project, initially under the pretext of helping insulate Micay from harassment, and taking some of the load off. Later maybe even impersonating Micay. Now the threat actor has backdoors to a large number of especially privacy/security-conscious parties, including communications, 2FA, location, cryptocurrency wallets, internal networks where those people work, etc.)

I think it probably hasn't been compromised like that, but it's an obvious real possibility, and IMHO, until GrapheneOS is more transparent, some natural users of GrapheneOS are going to consider iPhone relatively "the devil you know".

Again, I think Micay is genuine, and I'm a fan of the project and appreciate it. And I hope the project understands that's compatible with critical thinking about infosec, and doesn't take personal offense at that.

(Source: Am long-time GrapheneOS user, and have donated.)

Re: Original GrapheneOS responses to WIRED fact checker

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Something along the lines of "you know regardless of whether or not you're factually correct, these public attacks on other people companies are really bad for your image" Sometimes they aren't even factually correct and get a bit upset about it when called out. Anyways, I have gotten the same impression and these seem like red flags to me as well. Which is why I'd take everything in that response with a mountain o…

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There you go again.

Example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47247016

Re: Original GrapheneOS responses to WIRED fact checker

#110
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I like that they come across as a little paranoid. That's exactly the attitude I want in the people protecting my privacy and security. I hope the developers lie awake at night, unable to fall asleep because terrified that someone somewhere is plotting to attack and exploit them

https://xkcd.com/225/

That's hilarious thanks for sharing.
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