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Israeli soldiers using sexual assault to force Palestinians out of West Bank

theguardian.com

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Re: Israeli soldiers using sexual assault to force Palestinians out of West Bank

#81

Post by rozap »

Allfodr wrote: post #49
thot_experiment wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand what the purpose of making a distinction between monetary support in terms of direct aid, and indirect aid. The entire apparatus of the US government is paid for by our taxes, we pay for it either way. We also pay for it in instability and negative sentiment. > Israel is by far the most condemned country at the UN in terms of resolutions passed against it It's crazy to me that you know this and yet…

> It's crazy to me that you know this and yet it seems like you are still in support of the US protecting Israel? You still think this is a net win for the world? That's incomprehensible to me. It's crazy to me that you know the UN is literally run by states that actually commit war crimes, kill LGBTQ people, suppress women and minority rights, countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and you still think UN condemna…

Genocide committed by a democratic country that is cool with lgbtq people that have tech jobs and hang out at cafes doesn't make it OK. You're concerned with aesthetics over everything else.

Re: Israeli soldiers using sexual assault to force Palestinians out of West Bank

#82

Post by _DeadFred_ »

Allfodr wrote: post #8
thot_experiment wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Though to be honest my position is probably that we need to go past cutting off support and US tax dollars should go toward reparations for Palesine, Lebanon and probably Iran and others, we are complicit in a lot of fucked shit.) ((I don't think those places are lead by great individuals and everything is amazing to be clear, I also think the people there have suffered immensely from a century of american, british…

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Re: Israeli soldiers using sexual assault to force Palestinians out of West Bank

#83

Post by Noumenon72 »

throw_a_grenade wrote: post #34
Noumenon72 wrote: post #12

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> Not clear whether soldiers are acting on their own or following policy. It mostly doesn't matter, unless they're punished. If they're not, then the policy is, what they did is okay. That's why it's important to keep army disciplined.

It doesn't matter for things that are bad whether they are policy or not, like sexual assault. It matters for things that are okay if they are policy, like strip searches. If prison guards do strip searches on their own for fun, that is a problem, but the mandated ones are not. (Assuming the policy was made with a normal level of concern for human dignity and officer safety.)

Re: Israeli soldiers using sexual assault to force Palestinians out of West Bank

#84

Post by jalapenoj »

gostsamo wrote: post #16

The christian supporters of Israel can also think a bit about the itf soldiers destroying a statue of Jesus in Lebanon if they want to understand what they are supporting. Useful idiots doesn't even start to describe it. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpd575n1znzo

And Iraq used to have Christians before the pointless wars for israel, now it doesn’t.

Re: Israeli soldiers using sexual assault to force Palestinians out of West Bank

#85

Post by insane_dreamer »

firefoxd wrote: post #5

The language in the article would be fascinating if it wasn't such a horrible thing. It's not that the Israeli soldiers are sexually assaulting Palestinians, instead they are using Sexual Assault. Later they say "Sexualised violence is used...", "men and boys were Targeted..." It's like there is a gun shooting people, or someone using a gun. But we can't connect fully understand how or who is perpetuating it. Edit: s…

Most likely the settlers. If you start researching the violence by settlers in the West Bank and what they do to try to push out Palestinians and grab more of their land, it's horrifying. And the settlers are not your average Israeli -- they are the most hard-core Zionist Israelis (many of them foreigners)--that's explicitly why they are there in the first place. The pattern has been repeating for decades: Israeli army occupies some land in the WB, gives the land for free plus subsidized living to hardline Zionists who are armed and willing and able to defend and hold the land. Those people abuse the neighboring Palestinians to drive them away, and the now "empty" land can be occupied, the illegal settlement expanded, bring in more people. Rinse and repeat. Even though the settlements have been declared illegal over and over again by the UN and even previous US governments, Israel just ignores all of that. As long as there are "talks" going on, it can continue to slowly gobble up the WB and push the Palestinians into Jordan or an ever shrinking piece of land, just like Gaza.

Re: Israeli soldiers using sexual assault to force Palestinians out of West Bank

#86

Post by ekam »

anal_reactor wrote: post #32
thot_experiment wrote: post #2

US support for Israel is one of the most horrible things imaginable, really makes me ashamed. It is only the US standing between the current horrendous status quo and Israel being an true international pariah state. Hopefully we cut off support and usher in a find out era.

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Fascinating theory. Are there any statistics on how many Israeli soldiers have died for the U.S.? How many have been deployed to fight for the U.S.?

Re: Israeli soldiers using sexual assault to force Palestinians out of West Bank

#87

Post by thot_experiment »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #71
thot_experiment wrote: post #2

US support for Israel is one of the most horrible things imaginable, really makes me ashamed. It is only the US standing between the current horrendous status quo and Israel being an true international pariah state. Hopefully we cut off support and usher in a find out era.

US support for Netanyahu is one of the most horrible things imaginable. US support for a non-Netanyahu Israel may not be so much. The distinction is important, at the very least so people don't call you an anti-Semite. But even without that, I think it's important. I'm anti-Trump, anti-Netanyahu, anti-Hamas, and anti-IRGC, but not anti-US, anti-Israel, anti-Palestine or anti-Iran. The citizens of those countries are…

I said what I said; israel is the problem, I have no significant beef with Judaism (no more than any religion and less than some).

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-extremes-of-israe...

Re: Israeli soldiers using sexual assault to force Palestinians out of West Bank

#88

Post by thot_experiment »

anal_reactor wrote: post #47
thot_experiment wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're almost certainly #1 global problem causers so it's usually the safest bet. Though I wouldn't be as expansive as you, the USA, Portugal, Spain and the USSR are no slouches. Can't be forgetting the Dutch either.

So basically all powerful countries cause problems for other countries. Not exactly a resolutionary thing. Don't forget China, Japan, Mongolia, Romans, all sorts of infighting between native American groups before Columbus. And I assume that Africa wasn't exactly a paradise even before colonialism.

Yes, history happened and people should be held to account for it, not ad infinitum, but you know, if my dad killed your dad and took all his shit, and then left it to me, I'm pretty sure I shouldn't get to keep it and all the benefits that come from it just because I had nothing to do with it.

Re: Israeli soldiers using sexual assault to force Palestinians out of West Bank

#89

Post by throwawaypath »

thot_experiment wrote: post #35
Allfodr wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because I don't think US tax money should go toward reparations for Palestine, Lebanon, Iran or anywhere else. We're not 'complicit' in the way you're framing it

The only reason Israel is able to commit the horrors they are is because they can fuck around without finding out due to US protection paid for by our tax dollars, we are absolutely complicit. Of course that's only in the immediate term, I urge you to look at the history of the region even a little critically, so much of the conflict there is rooted in British, American and Israeli meddling, it's an insane take to cl…

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Re: Israeli soldiers using sexual assault to force Palestinians out of West Bank

#90

Post by antinomicus »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #71
thot_experiment wrote: post #2

US support for Israel is one of the most horrible things imaginable, really makes me ashamed. It is only the US standing between the current horrendous status quo and Israel being an true international pariah state. Hopefully we cut off support and usher in a find out era.

US support for Netanyahu is one of the most horrible things imaginable. US support for a non-Netanyahu Israel may not be so much. The distinction is important, at the very least so people don't call you an anti-Semite. But even without that, I think it's important. I'm anti-Trump, anti-Netanyahu, anti-Hamas, and anti-IRGC, but not anti-US, anti-Israel, anti-Palestine or anti-Iran. The citizens of those countries are…

Claiming that Israel is entirely a Netanyahu problem is ridiculous. No Netanyahu and what do you have left? An apartheid state, probably run by any number of awful replacements, like ben gvir or smotrich. Israel was founded in the shadow of the Nakba - they displaced million people and killed something like 15,000. That was only right when it was founded too. Post 1967, Israel ceased to have any left wing politics, and dove head first into their genocidal project, they’ve been doing it ever since. This is not antisemitic. I don’t care about religion and I’m not a baboon - I don’t care what you believe, I care what you do. And Israel has done, since the beginning, very bad stuff.
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