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All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

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Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#801

Post by nick486 »

bigfishrunning wrote: post #718
bko wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that pretty much no phones have a replaceable battery says something. And it doesn't mean that all manufacturers are somehow colluding with each. The market is very competitive and pretty much every manufacturer decided the trade offs are not worth the benefit. If Samsung or Xiaomi or Google could sell you a better phone with a replaceable battery, they would. But everyone came to the conclusion that the tra…

Because people will buy that phone and keep it much longer. When phones had replaceable batteries, they needed replaced after a couple of years because they were terrible. I'm now on a several year old pixel phone that I'm happy with, but eventually the battery will wear out and I'll have to replace it. Google likes it that way.

You don't have to replace the phone. You can go to some repair shop and get the battery replaced. It will be several times cheaper than a new phone.

Very few people do that. I don't. Because a) general software enshittification makes me need a more powerful decice anyway, and, more importantly, b) people are just happy to have an excuse to get the the new shiny.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#802

Post by denkmoon »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #778

I used to work for Nokia back when they still made phones. Replaceable batteries were very normal then. Phones were a bit thicker than today but not massively so. These days phones are actually thinner but much larger. I had a "are you happy to see me or is that a Nokia" type Nokia 9300. That was a brick. But it had a full hw keyboard. and flipped open it wasn't that much bigger than a modern smart phone. You could a…

If they filled that negative space my phone wouldn't rock annoyingly and sit awkwardly on flat surfaces, and that would be a great shame.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#803

Post by numpad0 »

techpression wrote: post #800
chromacity wrote: post #796

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Phones don't have removable batteries mostly because of the desire to make the device as thin as possible. The battery is just a delicate, flexible pouch that can easily be damaged and catch fire if removed from the phone and carried around. To make it safe, you'd need to add a hard shell, which would probably make the device 2 mm thicker or so. As to why we want to make phones as thin as possible... I don't know, bu…

It’s also very hard to make them resistant to water and dust, I really like that I can wash my iPhone in the sink and don’t have to worry about it getting wet in general. This is a lot harder to achieve with battery doors, especially if they need to be as big as a phone back.

Completely untrue and debunked ad nauseum.

Rugged phones with removable batteries has vastly superior IP ratings. Glues go bad faster than O-rings used in removable batteries do.

I've had water intrusion with an iPhone, and it drove a sales of a new display panel from myself. Not so much with an actual rugged phone.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#804

Post by thelastgallon »

KingMachiavelli wrote: post #725
rythie wrote: post #584

It’s been long enough that people of forgotten what’s it’s like. Cameras still have replaceable batteries, there are several benefits: I can have two (or more) batteries, if it runs out I just change it. I don’t need walk around with a USB battery pack and cable hanging off the device preventing me from using it properly. I can put the battery on charge somewhere and leave it, even if not completely secure, because j…

I don't think this is where peak battery tech ends up. At current capacities, batteries are becoming genuinely dangerous, and faster charging only amplifies the risk. Charging high-capacity cells outside a temperature-controlled charger is risky, and even reputable chargers shouldn't be left unattended — many workplaces ban it outright (it only takes one fire to make that policy). Phone batteries are the worst of it:…

We don't need fast charging. Phones will be left on wireless charging surfaces, which will eventually be ubiquitous. Everyone hates usb-c plug in. Just leave it on a surface, pick it whenever you want.

We don't need to fast charge anything, phones or EVs. Slow charging preserves battery life and smart charging will charge whenever it is cheapest.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#805

Post by HenrikB »

cyberrock wrote: post #793
rythie wrote: post #584

It’s been long enough that people of forgotten what’s it’s like. Cameras still have replaceable batteries, there are several benefits: I can have two (or more) batteries, if it runs out I just change it. I don’t need walk around with a USB battery pack and cable hanging off the device preventing me from using it properly. I can put the battery on charge somewhere and leave it, even if not completely secure, because j…

The final law just makes replacing batteries more accessible (i.e. no glue or special screws), but it doesn't mandate battery packs. Also some devices like hearing aids are exempt. I question whether battery packs would be a good thing to bring back now. USB power banks have 100% interchangeability among many device classes, which is something that not even dry cell batteries achieved. I can choose to leave the house…

Agree - I read this as it will be easy to replace the battery when it reaches its end of life and no longer can hold my charge. It will still take time to replace it, but that's okay since it'll only be done once every few years. It's not meant to re-introduce swappable battery packs, so you won't be able to carry spares on long trips etc.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#806

Post by ahf8Aithaex7Nai »

> Why isn't there any significant demand for replaceable batteries?

Most consumers are like pigs who simply eat whatever the market throws into their trough, because ultimately they have better things to do than to get deeply involved in every purchasing decision.

> If replaceable batteries were better, they would already be available.

Developments like those in the smartphone market involve complex path dependencies. That’s why you can’t simply assume that competition will lead to the product offerings converging on the best product. Furthermore, “better” needs to be defined in some way. If we leave that up to the market, it becomes a circular argument: (1) The better product prevails in the market. (2) The product that prevails in the market is the better one. This circular reasoning is the biggest flaw in market ideology. I don't understand why people can't see that. The market moves in a certain direction, and they say, “There it is—progress!”

> Regulation hinders progress.

Perhaps, at times, the opposite is true. Even if we set aside the fact that “better” is defined in a circular manner here, the path-dependence of market development sometimes causes the market to get stuck in a local optimum. Regulatory interventions in the market can then serve as an effective lever to help the market break free from that situation.

> If you want a removable battery, you're simply in the minority as a consumer.

That’s another point where I just don’t get market ideologues: why should I reject regulatory intervention on the one hand, but on the other hand, if the market doesn’t give me what I want, I’m supposed to just shut up and accept that there isn’t enough demand for my quirky, special requests? I’ve been missing removable batteries ever since they disappeared from the market. That must have coincided with the rise of smartphones. Come to think of it, maybe Steve Jobs is to blame. With iPods, there was still a public debate about the issue [1]. With the iPhone, it was just the way it was.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuTcavAzopg

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#807

Post by techpression »

numpad0 wrote: post #803
techpression wrote: post #800

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s also very hard to make them resistant to water and dust, I really like that I can wash my iPhone in the sink and don’t have to worry about it getting wet in general. This is a lot harder to achieve with battery doors, especially if they need to be as big as a phone back.

Completely untrue and debunked ad nauseum. Rugged phones with removable batteries has vastly superior IP ratings. Glues go bad faster than O-rings used in removable batteries do. I've had water intrusion with an iPhone, and it drove a sales of a new display panel from myself. Not so much with an actual rugged phone.

Rugged phones are so far removed from any consumer phone in terms of size and weight the comparison is about as apt as comparing military use laptops with a MacBook.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#808

Post by giantrobot »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #778

I used to work for Nokia back when they still made phones. Replaceable batteries were very normal then. Phones were a bit thicker than today but not massively so. These days phones are actually thinner but much larger. I had a "are you happy to see me or is that a Nokia" type Nokia 9300. That was a brick. But it had a full hw keyboard. and flipped open it wasn't that much bigger than a modern smart phone. You could a…

If you remember Nokia's batteries they were covered in a relatively thick ABS shell. They were also, compared to today, had laughably little storage. A Series 40 Nokia just did not draw that much power. The single GSM/PCS radio also sipped power.

Even if you stripped a 5G phone down to a Series 40-esque interface the 5G radios alone would use more power than a whole 3310.

In order to get the power density modern phones need they require high power Li-poly batteries. An extra 3mm worth of ABS shell is a lot of lost capacity. You can't sell user serviceable Li-poly batteries without a protective shell. You'd never get a UL rating because Li-polys are dangerous if mishandled.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#809

Post by pllbnk »

I find it so weird that European regulation targets very specific niches while avoiding generalization.

In order to reduce plastic pollution, they forced manufacturers to make attached bottle caps (terrible idea) but go to the supermarket and there are various fruits and vegetables each unit wrapped in plastic separately.

Now they are targeting phones but I also want my handheld and robot vacuum cleaners, electric toothbrushes, grass cutters, etc to also have batteries that can be removed and replaced without tearing down entire device and even learning soldering in some cases.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#810

Post by manquer »

kstrauser wrote: post #632
manquer wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not correct. There is no exemption for Apple devices You seem to referencing from a older exemption for self serviceability if your smartphone can do 1,000 cycles and retain 80% battery. Specifically - B 1.1 (1) (c) (ii) (b) . Here is the link - https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL... Article 11 of the new regulation ( https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL... ) c…

Your link says otherwise. From the Article 11 link, ANNEX II, A.1.1.(5): (a) From 20 June 2025, manufacturers, importers or authorised representatives shall ensure that the process for replacement of the display assembly and of parts referred to in point 1(a), with the exception of the battery or batteries , meets the following criteria: [...] [...] (c) From 20 June 2025, manufacturers, importers or authorised repres…

There is no Article 11 in the second link i mistakenly linked the same link twice . Here is the correct link https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2023/1542/oj/eng
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