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All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

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Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#691

Post by Zak »

avalys wrote: post #153
OutOfHere wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People shouldn't have to go to a special store or buy special tools requiring special skills to change a battery.

How do you feel about the batteries in electric vehicles? What about wearable devices like a smartwatch, headphones, smart glasses? Should all these be consumer-replaceable without tools, regardless of the effect on the other things people value in these devices (waterproofing, size and weight, battery life, etc.)? FYI I do not work for anything close to the consumer tech industry.

In software architecture, we talk about essential complexity and incidental complexity.

Essential complexity is inherent to the problem being solved; it can't be eliminated through better tools, process, or design. Incidental complexity is anything added by poor choices or flawed tools. Every line in a "hello world" program that isn't something pretty close to `print("hello world")` is incidental complexity.

To change the battery in electric vehicles that follow typical present-day design patterns, it's essential to have a way to get some clearance under the vehicles like a lift, ramps, or a pit, and it's essential to have a lift or jack to support the weight of the battery. Everything else is basic hand tools.

It is not essential to use any proprietary tools or software that isn't onboard the car or battery. Requiring anything like that is incidental, and a regulation could forbid it in the name of right to repair, reducing waste, or maintaining a healthy used car market.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#692

Post by traderj0e »

pyrale wrote: post #232
nonethewiser wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Engage with the content of his comment instead of resorting to ad hominem. He's right - the market wants embedded batteries, although perhaps not directly. Embedded batteries have improved price, battery capacity, water proofing, size, and strength. If the consumer really wanted a removable battery and all that that entails then there would be more phones that offered that. The reality is people misjudge what all tha…

You say "the market wants" like consumers are given much choice. Using that hypothesis, the market also loves cookie banners and prefers subscriptions over one-time payments.

They were given the choice years ago, when some Android phones had removable batteries and touted that as a feature. Nobody seemed to care.

In contrast, users were also given the choice between headphone jack and Bluetooth for years when every phone had both, and clearly chose the jack. BT headphones were rare. But Apple and many other phonemakers figured out they make more money by removing it.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#693

Post by unlikelytomato »

ghshephard wrote: post #662
kennywinker wrote: post #656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I’m confused why people say they want a thinner phone while carrying a phone that’s keeps getting larger every model. When was the last time you kept a phone longer than 2-3 years? That’d explain why you haven’t had one die. Assuming you do get a new phone regularly, easy battery replacement will probably help the resale value of your own a fair bit - the labour cost of a battery replacement is priced into…

My average time on a smartphone is now at 4 years, feels like it's going to 5 pretty soon. [Last upgrade was for USB-C. Next upgrade will be for on-device LLM. It's wild how approximately 0% of what Apple has done outside of the USB-C connector has mattered to me in the last 10+ years - low-light photography is probably the only other thing that comes to mind. ] I've had two battery replacements since 2015. One of th…

I very much miss the ability to never use my phone on a charging cable. Just swap the battery on an external charger and go. 5 seconds to charge to full. It was freeing and simple

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#695

Post by Forgeties79 »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #607
rythie wrote: post #584

It’s been long enough that people of forgotten what’s it’s like. Cameras still have replaceable batteries, there are several benefits: I can have two (or more) batteries, if it runs out I just change it. I don’t need walk around with a USB battery pack and cable hanging off the device preventing me from using it properly. I can put the battery on charge somewhere and leave it, even if not completely secure, because j…

Some action cameras have replaceable batteries, some don't. I had a perfectly good Contour Roam 2 where the battery died and I still have a Contour Roam 3 with some low capacity battery.

My GoPro hero 4 black still going strong. Probably one of the greatest cameras ever made. They kind of hurt themselves with how good it was lol

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#696

Post by MrDrMcCoy »

cmos wrote: post #142

What if we regulate batteries even more? i.e. what if, in some magical perfect world, the world get's together and agrees on batteries for phones like how we agree on AA,AAA,D,C batteries? Even more though.. a standard connector, a standard comms bus, a variety of sizes, and they were designed for reuse as efficiently as possible. Now we can scale up volume, swap them out, be free to purchase from a different manufac…

I'd settle for requiring the battery specs to be fully available, and that they can't be made difficult to manufacture without good reason.

Ideally, there should be some set of standard protocols/connectors/voltages/sizes, but the manufacturer should only be held to "downward-compliance" with at least one of them, so they can have flexibility in design but still leave a suboptimal standard option available to users as a fallback.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#697

Post by usefulcat »

kennywinker wrote: post #656
kolinko wrote: post #625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With cameras you don't care about every mm of width, nor about how resistant it is to falls. With phones you do. I, for one, don't welcome that change. I'd be ok with paying someone a bit extra to replace the battery. I mean, I'd be ok if I had a battery die in my phone in the last 10 years, which I don't remember it did.

Personally I’m confused why people say they want a thinner phone while carrying a phone that’s keeps getting larger every model. When was the last time you kept a phone longer than 2-3 years? That’d explain why you haven’t had one die. Assuming you do get a new phone regularly, easy battery replacement will probably help the resale value of your own a fair bit - the labour cost of a battery replacement is priced into…

I've had the same phone for over 6 years now (iPhone 11). It's a bit slower now, but I suspect that's more to do with software changes than anything else. In particular the battery is still in pretty good shape.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#698

Post by 6510 »

userbinator wrote: post #679
rythie wrote: post #584

It’s been long enough that people of forgotten what’s it’s like. Cameras still have replaceable batteries, there are several benefits: I can have two (or more) batteries, if it runs out I just change it. I don’t need walk around with a USB battery pack and cable hanging off the device preventing me from using it properly. I can put the battery on charge somewhere and leave it, even if not completely secure, because j…

and you can’t even find anyone who will fit them for the older models. I'm quite certain you can find many companies in the far East who will produce cells of exactly the size and shape you want, as long as you're willing to order a minimum quantity. There are also a few semi-standard sizes of prismatic cells available. That said, having a few truly standard sizes like we had with 1.2/1.5V and 9V batteries would be a…

I tried to find a phone battery once and found very similar looking ones with prices ranging from expensive to terrifying with everything in between. I don't trust the ones that are to cheap as I don't know how they cut the corners. I don't trust the more expensive ones because they look the same. I cant see the profit margins. I was unable to pick one. I ask a guy with a repair store. He said he always buys from the same shop and the badges look different every time.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#699

Post by aetherspawn »

traderj0e wrote: post #690
kstrauser wrote: post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your link says otherwise. From the Article 11 link, ANNEX II, A.1.1.(5): (a) From 20 June 2025, manufacturers, importers or authorised representatives shall ensure that the process for replacement of the display assembly and of parts referred to in point 1(a), with the exception of the battery or batteries , meets the following criteria: [...] [...] (c) From 20 June 2025, manufacturers, importers or authorised repres…

So if it weren't for that exemption, would iPhone batteries qualify? You can do it with regular tools and a YouTube tutorial, but it's not easy.

The tools are not regular. They’re teeny tiny security bits.
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