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AI Resistance: some recent anti-AI stuff that’s worth discussing

stephvee.ca

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Re: AI Resistance: some recent anti-AI stuff that’s worth discussing

#221
post #193
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the ability to poison models, if it can be made to work reliably Ultimately, it comes down to the halting problem: If there's a mechanism that can be used to alter the measured behaviour, then the system can change behaviour to take into account the mechanism. In other words, unless you keep the poisoning attack strictly inaccessible to the public, the mechanism used to poison will also be possible to use to train…

This reduction to the halting problem looks too handwawy to me. I don't see as a given that the possibility of the system taking into account the attack follows from the existence of the attack.

They might be trying to talk about Rice's theorem?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice%27s_theorem

Formally, any non-trivial semantic property of a Turing machine is undecidable. Semantic here (roughly) means "behavioral" questions of the turing machine. E.g. if you only look at the "language" it defines (viewing it as a black box), then it is undecidable to answer any question about that language (including things like if it terminates on all inputs).

Practically though that isn't a complete no-go result. You can do various things, like

1. weaken the target you're looking for. if you're ok with admitting false positives or false negatives, Rice's theorem no longer applies, or 2. rephrase your question in terms of "syntatic properties", e.g. questions about how the code is implemented. Rust's borrow checker does this via lifetime annotations, for example.

Re: AI Resistance: some recent anti-AI stuff that’s worth discussing

#222
post #95

The only thing more cringe than the seething anger in this blog is the technical illiteracy revealed by an earnest belief that any of these attempts at "poisoning" will have any negative impact whatsoever on model training.

Lol I find the opposite to be cringe to be honest: people using chatgpt to write messages, emails, resumes for them, professional software developers vibe coding entire apps, talking about AGI coming from LLMs. Please. That is the cringe.

Who could have thought: There's more than one way to be cringe!

Re: AI Resistance: some recent anti-AI stuff that’s worth discussing

#223

I do understand people's dislike / hatred for AI but I am equally baffled. I feel like the same people that shout "Capitalism sucks, free us from our labor" are the exact same types that hate AI. The exact machine that will free you from your labor, when harnessed correctly, is the exact thing you hate. The "cyber psychosis" thing is overblown just like the "Tesla ignites its passengers" is. The only reason it gets i…

The world already produces enough of everything that we could feed and clothe everyone, and yet it is not the case. Care to explain why?

Because the people with the rights to control the food and clothing have no incentive to give it to the people who don't have food, clothing, or money.

Re: AI Resistance: some recent anti-AI stuff that’s worth discussing

#224
Any human scale "attack", e.g. the made up Everybody Loves Raymond episode isn't doing anything to hurt LLM training data. Might even help them detect exaggeration, satire, etc. when read in context and with other knowledge they have from other sources (like scraping IMDB or whatever, and already knowing the cast and plot summary of every episode of Everybody Loves Raymond).

If there is an effective way to poison them, it'll be automated. And, it'll probably rely on an LLM to produce the poison, since it has to look legit enough to pass the quality filtering and classification stage of the data ingestion process, which is also probably driven by an LLM.

One reason small models are getting better is because the training data being used is not just getting bigger, it's getting cleaner and classified more correctly/precisely. "Model collapse" hasn't happened, yet, even though something like half the web is AI slop, because as the models get smarter for human use in a variety of contexts, they also get smarter for use in preparing data for training the next model. There may very well still be risks of a mad cow disease like problem for LLMs, but I doubt a Markov chain website is going to contribute. The models still can't always tell fact from fiction, but they're not being hoodwinked by a nonsense generator.

Re: AI Resistance: some recent anti-AI stuff that’s worth discussing

#225

I've noticed this trend most heavily on Reddit. Some communities are very pro-AI, adding AI summary comments to each thread, encouraging AI-written posts, etc.[0] Many subreddits are AI cautious[1][2], and a subset of those are fully anti-AI[3]. Apart from these "AI-focused" communities, it seems each "traditional" subreddit sits somewhere on the spectrum (photographers dealing with AI skepticism of their work[4], pr…

Reddit (and more generally, human) groupthing in a nutshell. "Quick, clearly position yourself on this one-dimensional line (or maybe even better sort yourself into one of these two sets) so we don't have to engage in that pesky nuance thing!"

Re: AI Resistance: some recent anti-AI stuff that’s worth discussing

#226

I do understand people's dislike / hatred for AI but I am equally baffled. I feel like the same people that shout "Capitalism sucks, free us from our labor" are the exact same types that hate AI. The exact machine that will free you from your labor, when harnessed correctly, is the exact thing you hate. The "cyber psychosis" thing is overblown just like the "Tesla ignites its passengers" is. The only reason it gets i…

> The same people that shout "Capitalism sucks, free us from our labor" are the exact same types that hate AI. The exact machine that will free you from your labor, when harnessed correctly, is the exact thing you hate. What is your source on them being "the exact same types"?

Not exactly the same types.

It is a large subsection, but a subsection, that both rally against capitalism and AI. I haven't found people of the '1$$$% capitalism great' people to hate AI... which I do find ironic: but most things tend to fall into irony on that side of the spectrum, so I don't find it surprising.

Re: AI Resistance: some recent anti-AI stuff that’s worth discussing

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite fake game is Fortnite. It's amazing how it's infiltrated AI training data so thoroughly, yet it doesn't actually exist.

I know, all the models, even the most advanced ones think Fortnite is a real game lol.

It’s the test I’ve used for AI for many years. I ask it to draw a screenshot from this imaginary “Fortnite” game. If it draws something rather than pointing out fortnite doesn’t exist then I know it’s failed.

One time it drew a fortnight riding a bike. Hilarious.

Re: AI Resistance: some recent anti-AI stuff that’s worth discussing

#228
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If humanity goes extinct in the next few years because of unaligned superintelligence This is either a misunderstanding of the anti-AI crowd or an intentional attempt to discredit them. The majority of anti-AI people don't actually fear this because that belief would require that this person has already bought into the hype regarding the actual power and prowess of AI. The bigger motivator for anti-AI folks is usual…

There are many different groups of anti-AI people with different beliefs. This attempt to "reframe and reclaim" (here, paraphrased: "significant existential risks from AI is actually marketing hype by pro-AI fanatics") is a rhetorical device, but not an honest one. It's a power struggle over who gets to define and lead "the" anti-AI movement. We may agree or disagree with them but there are rational anti-AI arguments…

This particularly anti-AI article is not from a pdoomer.

Re: AI Resistance: some recent anti-AI stuff that’s worth discussing

#229
post #212

Hasn’t griefing and trolling been a thing on the internet for a while? What makes this unique just because it’s AI instead of whatever else?

> What makes this unique just because it’s AI instead of whatever else?

I'd say the notion that expensive acts of sabotage (that can be cheaply neutralized) are a worthwhile pastime and anything other than virtue signaling is somewhat perplexing. (Not in a good way.)

Re: AI Resistance: some recent anti-AI stuff that’s worth discussing

#230
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The same people that shout "Capitalism sucks, free us from our labor" are the exact same types that hate AI. The exact machine that will free you from your labor, when harnessed correctly, is the exact thing you hate. I think you fundamentally misunderstand leftists/Maxists here. They don't want to be "freed from labor". They want to own the value they produce instead of bartering their labor. In fact, Marxists tend…

You yourself have no idea what Marxism is because one of the basic tenets of Marxism is that productive forces shape the society. The people opposing AI want to stop the very thing that can help change society. You can't just will a society to gain consciousness - it has to come from the productive forces. That is materialism.

>one of the basic tenets of Marxism is that productive forces shape the society

Correct. So a future where AI does the majority of work means that the proletariat is no longer the historical subject; AI and its ownership class are. In this situation, AI will shape the society, not the workers. Not really a desirable outcome for anyone engaged in mass class politics.

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