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EV sales soar in main European markets as drivers shun expensive petrol

reuters.com

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Re: EV sales soar in main European markets as drivers shun expensive petrol

#31

Post by measurablefunc »

wao0uuno wrote: post #20
measurablefunc wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mandates won't fix the fundamental physical & material problems so I'll repeat what I said. EVs are never going to work at the scale of ICEs, the numbers don't work out. Regardless of any political "incentives", there is only a finite amount of copper & only finitely many cars that can be made w/ that amount of copper which has to be extracted & processed using non-renewable resources.

Copper is a widely recycled metal. Is there not enough copper on earth to replace all ICE cars with EVs? Can you post some sources? And those numbers you keep talking about so I can verify if your calculator is working alright.

I already posted the link. You are welcome to verify the details for yourself by following up on what you take to be articles of faith. The burden of proof is on you to explain why the numbers actually work.

Re: EV sales soar in main European markets as drivers shun expensive petrol

#32

Post by jjtheblunt »

jesterson wrote: post #6

I wonder what way of thinking these people exercise. They think electricity prices are somehow shielded from price going up?

i rarely (as a 12 year ev driver) see discussions mention you just get multiple times more distance per dollar, as a consumer, with an EV over ICE. (and i like both....it's just what i have measured having both)

Re: EV sales soar in main European markets as drivers shun expensive petrol

#33

Post by measurablefunc »

peterlada wrote: post #23
measurablefunc wrote: post #2

These are just flashes in a pan. The material math for EVs is not viable.

Geez, Hillsdale College. Worldwide authority on all economics from the theological perspective. Congrats on picking information sources.

Do the math & then post your own video to explain why he's mistaken.

Re: EV sales soar in main European markets as drivers shun expensive petrol

#34

Post by melling »

a_shovel wrote: post #25

The next administration needs to mandate the big American auto companies produce more EVs in more models in order to save them from the irrelevance they seemingly desire and arguably deserve.

You’re part of the problem, not the solution. There’s an entire political backlash against EVs because of mandates. The Trump Administration actually prevented California from having EV quotas.

Simply let in EVs from China and let American car companies go out of business.

Re: EV sales soar in main European markets as drivers shun expensive petrol

#36

Post by ManuelKiessling »

I say this as someone who owns two EV cars, zero ICE cars, and loves everything about owning and driving EVs: it baffles me how quickly and noticeably consumers shift their preferences; I think I read something along the lines of „for the average German commuter, the petrol price spike means 6 euros plus per week in spending“ — and that is enough for so many people to go „okay screw it I’m switching to new technology for my planned purchase“?

I mean, great that it happens, but yeah, I‘m baffled.

Re: EV sales soar in main European markets as drivers shun expensive petrol

#37

Post by slaw »

whatevaa wrote: post #24
jqpabc123 wrote: post #3

The big winner from the Iran war thus far --- China. Whether Israel is a real winner is yet to be determined. There is no significant, strategic benefit to the USA despite spending at least $50 billion thus far --- not counting the cost of inflated fuel prices.

China has been winning since Trump took office second time. They are winning by doing... nothing :)

China is advancing for the last 25 years, Trump or no Trump.

Re: EV sales soar in main European markets as drivers shun expensive petrol

#38

Post by thebruce87m »

jesterson wrote: post #6

I wonder what way of thinking these people exercise. They think electricity prices are somehow shielded from price going up?

Here’s my way of thinking: charging overnight on a smart tariff means my cost per mile is a quarter of what it used to be. It could go up by 3x and I’d still save.

Re: EV sales soar in main European markets as drivers shun expensive petrol

#39

Post by ManuelKiessling »

measurablefunc wrote: post #8
zug_zug wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think "material math" applies to things that are huge luxury/status symbol purchases. Otherwise we'd all be driving 2005 corollas. And as status-symbol or identity statement, being anti-oil (or anti beholden on America, Russia, Iran, etc) seems like a pretty good one.

I am not making any political statements, it's all basic physics & material science: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEkIh2PcSYE

Global copper reserves are about 980 million tonnes, with 1.5 billion tonnes of identified resources and 2024 mine production of about 23 million tonnes.

A conventional car uses about 23 kg of copper and a battery-electric car about 83 kg, a difference of roughly 60 kg per vehicle.

With more than 17 million EVs sold in 2024, that implies about 1.4 million tonnes of copper embodied in those vehicles, or about 1.0 million tonnes more copper than comparable conventional cars would have used; applying the same assumptions to the current global passenger-car fleet implies roughly 120 million tonnes total or 87 million tonnes incremental copper for an all-BEV fleet.

Separately, the IEA says that under today’s policy settings and announced projects, copper faces an implied 30% mined-supply shortfall in 2035, while expanded recycling could reduce new mine needs for copper by about 35% by 2050.

USGS copper reserves / resources / mine production https://pubs.usgs.gov/periodicals/mcs2025/mcs2025-copper.pdf

USGS Mineral Commodity Summaries 2025 landing page https://pubs.usgs.gov/publication/mcs2025

IEA Global EV Outlook 2025 – trends in electric car markets https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2025/trends-in...

IEA Global EV Outlook 2025 – full report page https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2025

IEA Global EV Outlook 2025 – PDF https://iea.blob.core.windows.net/assets/7ea38b60-3033-42a6-...

IEA Global Critical Minerals Outlook 2025 – overview for copper shortfall / recycling https://www.iea.org/reports/global-critical-minerals-outlook...

IEA Global Critical Minerals Outlook 2025 – executive summary https://www.iea.org/reports/global-critical-minerals-outlook...

IEA Global Critical Minerals Outlook 2025 – PDF https://iea.blob.core.windows.net/assets/ef5e9b70-3374-4caa-...

International Copper Association – copper intensity in electrification of transport https://internationalcopper.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/2...

Re: EV sales soar in main European markets as drivers shun expensive petrol

#40

Post by bamboozled »

ManuelKiessling wrote: post #36

I say this as someone who owns two EV cars, zero ICE cars, and loves everything about owning and driving EVs: it baffles me how quickly and noticeably consumers shift their preferences; I think I read something along the lines of „for the average German commuter, the petrol price spike means 6 euros plus per week in spending“ — and that is enough for so many people to go „okay screw it I’m switching to new technology…

It’s the stress around it, not the current price. That’s what people are replacing.

If I’m trying to plan for the future in a world where conflicts this destructive are permanently on the menu, I’m not going to ever buy an ICE car again. No one wants to be at the mercy of anyone else where possible and as someone who only owns ICE cars, it’s been very stressful few weeks.

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