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At long last, InfoWars is ours

theonion.com

191–200 of 341 posts

Re: At long last, InfoWars is ours

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. But one cannot claim to know have an infallible insight into what that truth is.

Trump does, why can't he too?

Two people can both be wrong. President Trump also has nothing to do with this unrelated truth claim.

Re: At long last, InfoWars is ours

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of the judgment seems reasonable for years of harassment against a bunch of people, all done for a profit, plus a bunch of egregious misbehavior in court.

[flagged]

But Jones did profit from the traffic and thus ad revenue that controversy stirred up, this case is about that* not about Jones right to have an opinion, but how Jones weilded it at the expense of others, no less*.

Re: At long last, InfoWars is ours

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also idk what corporation has gone out of its way to slander innocent families

I mean, yeah, but the subtext of the preceding comment was that corporations have done stuff like Bhopal, which while not as luridly evil as what Jones did was still objectively worse as a civil offense cognizable to a court of law. But when a corporation does something like Bhopal, you can generally count on them hyperprofessionally attending to every detail of the ensuring tort case. Unlike Jones, who at literally…

> Unlike Jones, who at literally every step of the legal process thumbed his nose at the court, including, at one point, attempting to boycott the process outright.

Legal Eagle and the commentary on the cell phone evidence (3 years ago) https://youtu.be/x-QcbOphxYs

Re: At long last, InfoWars is ours

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bear in mind buying it to ruin it is a very real public service. Alex Jones was hoping a conservative ally would buy it and then just continue to let him do what he wants. Jokes aside, The Onion is basically spending a giant pile of money to burn the website down.

I remember when The KLF burned a million quid. They were being internally consistent. It was artistically relevant. Most people thought they were insane. Bill Drummond wrote about how it strained his relationship with his kids. You can tell that he regrets it. Personally I think a million bucks to lease a domain name for a year is a really terrible business decision. You might be able to argue that it's going to vict…

The cost seems really high. On the other hand I thought bringing the Onion back as a print comedy newspaper was insane too, so possibly they know things I don’t. There is a business plan here, even if it’s a dumb one.

Re: At long last, InfoWars is ours

#195
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reasonable by what metric? I've seen judgements that are tiny fractions of this for corporate crimes that affects hundreds or thousands of people. Is it reasonable because Alex Jones can afford it (hint: he can't, not even if he wasn't hiding his money)? This judgement ends up being more akin to punishing him by forcing him off of his platform, which is actually unconstitutional even for a shitbag like him.

To be clear, you don't actually have a constitutional right to slander people.

Yes, by definition, you do. It is not illegal to slander anyone. The police cannot arrest you for this, you can't be convicted and sentenced to anything.

Those people won a tort (in theory), because he caused them damages that he was responsible for making remedying.

Re: At long last, InfoWars is ours

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of the judgment seems reasonable for years of harassment against a bunch of people, all done for a profit, plus a bunch of egregious misbehavior in court.

Reasonable by what metric? I've seen judgements that are tiny fractions of this for corporate crimes that affects hundreds or thousands of people. Is it reasonable because Alex Jones can afford it (hint: he can't, not even if he wasn't hiding his money)? This judgement ends up being more akin to punishing him by forcing him off of his platform, which is actually unconstitutional even for a shitbag like him.

In a criminal case, if you refuse to cooperate, ignore warrants, etc, the state can and will send in the police to arrest you and continue their investigation while you sit in jail.

In a civil case, that power doesn't exist; opposing council cannot order your arrest or send the police in to break down your door and execute a subpoena. This presents an obvious question: if there is no way to compel cooperation in a civil trial, why would anyone play along if they were guilty? To provide an incentive to do so, civil trials have sanctions, penalties issued by the judge to the offending party, which ratchet up in accordance with the severity of the misconduct displayed in the proceedings.

Alex Jones/Free Speech Systems/Infowars repeatedly withheld and spoliated evidence, ignored subpoenas, verifiably lied under oath, committed bankruptcy fraud to delay the proceedings, and sent woefully unprepared corporate representatives to depositions in direct defiance of court orders. Their conduct was so egregious that two judges independently handed down default judgements: for refusing to cooperate at every step of the way, they lost the right to argue their case in front of a jury, so the juries would just decide how much Jones et al owed in restitution.

If the juries felt Jones et al had been wronged and there was no real merit to the case, they would have awarded the Sandy Hook families $1 judgements (look up nominal damages, there is lots of precedence for this), but in both cases, the juries felt Jones' conduct was so egregious that they gave large judgements to the Sandy Hook families.

In both trials, the judges went out of their way to go along with all the dumb arguments FSS's council was putting forth to ensure no appeal could ever succeed on the merits. All Jones had to do was give the appearance of cooperation and then he would have been allowed to argue to the jury that he was innocent, but he couldn't reign in his worst impulses, defaming the victims during the trial and chasing away every competent attorney he had, leaving him with Norm Pattis (CT trial) and Andino Reynal (TX trial), attorneys who have no qualms catering to a client in ways that might jeopardize their law licenses.

The real kicker is that defamation law is full of snakes, attorneys laser-focused on money with no morals who will happily do things like put rape victims on the stand to interrogate them on every detail and turn innocent misrecollections into wins for the rapist. That Alex couldn't even keep one of those around speaks volumes.

Alex sacrificed his right to a trial to determine his innocence. He and Free Speech Systems then declared bankruptcy because he knew paying for the consequences of his actions was impossible, and when you declare chapter 7 bankruptcy, everything is for sale, including the "news" outlet he ran.

Alex isn't being silenced (and even if he were it's not the government doing it so the constitution doesn't play a role here). He got Judge Lopez to rule his Twitter account was not an asset that can be auctioned off, and he's been working to shift his audience over there so he can continue his grift, with his merch now being peddled by The Alex Jones Store, a company owned by one of his friends (Bigly), which will likely be untouchable by the bankruptcy court, so he's not going to end up on the streets unable to spread his message.

> Reasonable by what metric? I've seen judgements that are tiny fractions of this for corporate crimes that affects hundreds or thousands of people.

I fully support greater penalties on corporations that break the law. That said, I still view Jones' judgements as well-earned and reasonable.

Re: At long last, InfoWars is ours

#199
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Idk what the Sandy Hook shooting has to do with this, the Onion has been around for much longer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27No_Way_to_Prevent_This,%27_... > 'No Way to Prevent This,' Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens They've reprinted / reposted that article 39 times since 2014 (Sandy Hook was in 2012) Gun violence is something that the editorial board of The Onion feels strongly about.

Ok so they feel strongly about gun violence, where's the humorous part here? It's a pretty funny headline being used the first time, maybe they were better in 2014.

Re: At long last, InfoWars is ours

#200
post #182

Please can someone correct my opinion on this because I'm sure I'm missing something. I find it crazy that in the US you can't take an opinion on something without risking being bankrupted because that thing you said is later proven untrue and that it hurt someone's feelings – feeling which in the US have a monetary value of billions apparently. I agree that the media should be evidence based and it's bad when the me…

An opinion would be something like "I think it's good that those kids were shot".

You could say that all day and people would not like you, but no one could do anything about it.

What Alex Jones did was deny reality. He suggested that the victims did not exist. He suggested the event did not happen and the grieving parents were government-hired actors. He riled up his listeners and effectively sent them after people. He did this in spite of knowing what he was saying on his show was not true. That was a large part of things, that Alex Jones was aware he was spreading misinformation.

Let's not pretend Alex Jones was doing was voicing a "difference of opinion".

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