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Qwen3.6-Max-Preview: Smarter, Sharper, Still Evolving

qwen.ai

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Re: Qwen3.6-Max-Preview: Smarter, Sharper, Still Evolving

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you view the "thinking" traces you can see why; it will go back and forth on potential solutions, writing full implementations in the thinking block then debating them, constantly circling back to points it raised earlier, and starting every other paragraph with "Actually…" or "But wait!"

> "Actually…" or "But wait!" You’re absolutely right! Jokes apart, I did notice GLM doing these back and forth loops.

I was watching Qwen3.6-35B-A3B (locally) doing the same dance yesterday. It eventually finished and had a reasonable answer, but it sure went back and forth on a bunch of things I had explicitly said not to do before coming to a conclusion. At least said conclusion was not any of the things I'd said not to do.

Re: Qwen3.6-Max-Preview: Smarter, Sharper, Still Evolving

#182
post #71

Ok I find it funny that people compare models and are like, opus 4.7 is SOTA and is much better etc, but I have used glm 5.1 (I assume this comes form them training on both opus and codex) for things opus couldn't do and have seen it make better code, haven't tried the qwen max series but I have seen the local 122b model do smarter more correct things based on docs than opus so yes benchmarks are one thing but realit…

The only reason I'm stuck with Claude and Chatgpt is because of their tool calling. They do have some pretty useful features like skills etc. I've tried using qwen and deepseek but they can't even output documents. How are you guys handling documents and excels with these tools? I'd love to switch tbh.

Re: Qwen3.6-Max-Preview: Smarter, Sharper, Still Evolving

#183
post #83
post #71

Ok I find it funny that people compare models and are like, opus 4.7 is SOTA and is much better etc, but I have used glm 5.1 (I assume this comes form them training on both opus and codex) for things opus couldn't do and have seen it make better code, haven't tried the qwen max series but I have seen the local 122b model do smarter more correct things based on docs than opus so yes benchmarks are one thing but realit…

Many people averted religion (which I can get behind with), but have never removed the dogmatic thinking that lay at its root. As so many things these days: It's a cult. I've used Claude for many months now. Since February I see a stark decline in the work I do with it. I've also tried to use it for GPU programming where it absolutely sucks at, with Sonnet, Opus 4.5 and 4.6 But if you share that sentiment, it's alway…

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Re: Qwen3.6-Max-Preview: Smarter, Sharper, Still Evolving

#184
post #82

Notice the pattern that Chinese providers are now: 1. Keeping models closed source. 2. Jacking up pricing. A lot. Sometimes up to 100% increase.

Huh yeah, that's truly a unique trait these Chinese companies don't share with companies in other countries.

No it is not, but they had a unique positioning around open-source and the parent commenter means that they are losing it.

Re: Qwen3.6-Max-Preview: Smarter, Sharper, Still Evolving

#185
post #71

Ok I find it funny that people compare models and are like, opus 4.7 is SOTA and is much better etc, but I have used glm 5.1 (I assume this comes form them training on both opus and codex) for things opus couldn't do and have seen it make better code, haven't tried the qwen max series but I have seen the local 122b model do smarter more correct things based on docs than opus so yes benchmarks are one thing but realit…

I wonder why glm is viewed so positively. Every time I try to build something with it, the output is worse than other models I use (Gemini, Claude), it takes longer to reach an answer and plenty of times it gets stuck in a loop.

I've been running Opus and GLM side-by side for a couple weeks now, and I've been impressed with GLM. I will absolutely agree that it's slow, but if you let it cook, it can be really impressive and absolutely on the level of Opus. Keep in mind, I don't really use AI to build entire services, I'm mostly using it to make small changes or help me find bugs, so the slowness doesn't bother me. Maybe if I set it to make a whole web app and it took 2 days, that would be different.

The big kicker for GLM for me is I can use it in Pi, or whatever harness I like. Even if it was _slightly_ below Opus, and even though it's slower, I prefer it. Maybe Mythos will change everything, but who knows.

Re: Qwen3.6-Max-Preview: Smarter, Sharper, Still Evolving

#187
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder about this. I see two obvious possibilities (if we ignore bias): 1. The models are purposefully nerfed, before the release of the next model, similar to how Apple allegedly nerfed their older phones when the next model was out. 2. You are relying more and more on the models and are using your talent less and less. What you are observing is the ratio of your vs. the model’s work leaning more and more to the m…

I definitely find your last point is true for me. The more work I am doing with AI the more I am expecting it to do, similar to how you can expect more over time from a junior you are delegating to and training. However the model isn't learning or improving the same way, so your trust is quickly broken. As you note, the developer's input is still driving the model quite a bit so if the developer is contributing less…

> However the model isn't learning or improving the same way, so your trust is quickly broken.

One other failure mode that I've seen in my own work while I've been learning: the things that you put into AGENTS.md/CLAUDE.md/local "memories" can improve performance or degrade performance, depending on the instructions. And unless you're actively quantitatively reviewing and considering when performance is improving or degrading, you probably won't pick up that two sentences that you added to CLAUDE.md two weeks ago are why things seem to have suddenly gotten worse.

> similar to how you can expect more over time from a junior you are delegating to and training

That's the really interesting bit. Both Claude and Codex have learned some of my preferences by me explicitly saying things like "Do not use emojis to indicate task completion in our plan files, stick to ASCII text only". But when you accidentally "teach" them something that has a negative impact on performance, they're not very likely to push back, unlike a junior engineer who will either ignore your dumb instruction or hopefully bring it up.

> As you note, the developer's input is still driving the model quite a bit so if the developer is contributing less and less as they trust more, the results would get worse.

That is definitely a thing too. There have been a few times that I have "let my guard down" so to speak and haven't deeply considered the implications of every commit. Usually this hasn't been a big deal, but there have been a few really ugly architectural decisions that have made it through the gate and had to get cleaned up later. It's largely complacency, like you point out, as well as burnout trying to keep up with reviewing and really contemplating/grokking the large volume of code output that's possible with these tools.

Re: Qwen3.6-Max-Preview: Smarter, Sharper, Still Evolving

#188
post #71

Ok I find it funny that people compare models and are like, opus 4.7 is SOTA and is much better etc, but I have used glm 5.1 (I assume this comes form them training on both opus and codex) for things opus couldn't do and have seen it make better code, haven't tried the qwen max series but I have seen the local 122b model do smarter more correct things based on docs than opus so yes benchmarks are one thing but realit…

The only reason I'm stuck with Claude and Chatgpt is because of their tool calling. They do have some pretty useful features like skills etc. I've tried using qwen and deepseek but they can't even output documents. How are you guys handling documents and excels with these tools? I'd love to switch tbh.

When was the last time you used Qwen models? Their 3.5 and 3.6 models are excellent with tool calling.

Re: Qwen3.6-Max-Preview: Smarter, Sharper, Still Evolving

#189
post #71

Ok I find it funny that people compare models and are like, opus 4.7 is SOTA and is much better etc, but I have used glm 5.1 (I assume this comes form them training on both opus and codex) for things opus couldn't do and have seen it make better code, haven't tried the qwen max series but I have seen the local 122b model do smarter more correct things based on docs than opus so yes benchmarks are one thing but realit…

The only reason I'm stuck with Claude and Chatgpt is because of their tool calling. They do have some pretty useful features like skills etc. I've tried using qwen and deepseek but they can't even output documents. How are you guys handling documents and excels with these tools? I'd love to switch tbh.

I've been using qwen-code (the software, not to be confused with Qwen Code the service or Qwen Coder the model) which is a fork of gemini-cli and the tool use with Qwen models at least has been great.
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